> What bass shaker have you experimented with?
> These "tactile transducers" seem to be popular.

I get excellent results with the "Puck" Transducer by Dayton Audio, available at Parts Express:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet...er=300-388

Sells for about $13 apiece.  I use two, one for my bench and one for my audience to hold on their lap.  Powered by a 100-watt Subwoofer Amplifier, also by Dayton.  Gives a magnificent sense of reality when playing Grand Piano (or Organ!) with headphones, all night long and it never scares the neighbors!

You can turn that entire soundboard (or wall) into a speaker!  The Puck responds mostly below 80 Hz, but other brands may extend through the entire audible spectrum.  Of course, it also depends on what amplifier you use.  (Subwoofer Amps usually have a cut-off so that only the low bass gets through.)

eugene wrote:

... I'd add that one needs to clean the wax out of their ears, toss the tin cans and string and play the instrument through a decent sound path.

If one hasn't tried it yet, I'd sure recommend utilizing a separate sub woofer that you can adjust to your heart's content.  And, believe it or not, a simple bass shaker attached under your bench or stool does wonders to help emulate the vibrations you get from the mass of the strings vibrating.  Actually, just attach the sub under your seat and you'll get the sensory bonus.

What bass shaker have you experimented with? I was unaware of these, and just looked them up. These "tactile transducers" seem to be popular. (There is at least one video about attaching one to a waterbed on Youtube.)

It seems as though some of them have a wider range than others and can produce audible results.  I wonder what would happen if one or two were attached to a piece of wood with good acoustic properties. Like a soundboard, for example.

Or to a larger piece of wood the size of a piano or a wall. I've wanted a wall-sized speaker for a long time.

... I'd add that one needs to clean the wax out of their ears, toss the tin cans and string and play the instrument through a decent sound path.

If one hasn't tried it yet, I'd sure recommend utilizing a separate sub woofer that you can adjust to your heart's content.  And, believe it or not, a simple bass shaker attached under your bench or stool does wonders to help emulate the vibrations you get from the mass of the strings vibrating.  Actually, just attach the sub under your seat and you'll get the sensory bonus.

We can't say that real pianos are perfect.

The best models and brands can't fit to all music styles. With pianoteq and some sampled piano you can change from one model to other, sellecting from a collection of piano models, when require a different piano sound for a different music style.

But from my humble point of view, there is a thing that even pianoteq did not tried yet, despite the technology of it probably be able to.
I refer about change the aspect, the "soul", the individual characteristic or characteristic of a piano while playing. Why not???

Why not a pedal to gradually change some choosen characteristics of the sound? Imagine a D4 model changing the sound to something similar to a Bosendorfer, while playing, with a simple pedal activation.

Morphing piano ability...  What about that ?

Not something I have any interest in doing, but I imagine that just about any continuous controller could be connected to just about any of the PTQ user accessible controls.
Whether it would be practical or even desirable to "fade" between different pianos over the course of a few bars or a turnaround... is debatable.

I suppose if there was an SDK one could write external scripts to gradually change all the FPX settings - or hook up an air turn and do it in a single foot stomp :-D

The best models and brands can't fit to all music styles. With pianoteq and some sampled piano you can change from one model to other, sellecting from a collection of piano models, when require a different piano sound for a different music style.

But from my humble point of view, there is a thing that even pianoteq did not tried yet, despite the technology of it probably be able to.
I refer about change the aspect, the "soul", the individual characteristic or characteristic of a piano while playing. Why not???

Why not a pedal to gradually change some choosen characteristics of the sound? Imagine a D4 model changing the sound to something similar to a Bosendorfer, while playing, with a simple pedal activation.

Morphing piano ability...  What about that ?

To me PTQ is an interesting adjustable instrument, there are too many pre-sets for me to fully explore, most of them are quite acceptable.
I probably should have bought the Play(now "Stage") version instead of the one with too many knobs, switches, sliders & do-dadds (for me) to be useful.
I regard it as a sandbox for sound experimenters, which is a FINE pastime in and of itself - IMO.
As a matter of "perspective" I can have a good time on a hideously neglected upright with a few broken strings, making music being more important than achieving "sound fidelity", or whatever term one wants to fling around.
I still have a great time playing my now decades old U220 piano module, in fact I play that more than PTQ. 
It is already there, I don't have to lug a laptop to the keyboard, start up programs, plug midi cables, etc. 
I can just sit down and spontaneously play for a few minutes (which could become an hour or more) without having to "set up to play".

For folk like me there may be a market for a DP with PTQ Stage already "integrated" into it.
Except for the fact that I already have keyboard, amp, speakers, etc. (-:

Physis is doing modelling in a DP, so they believe that there is a market for it.
I don't know how many knobs, switches, sliders, do-dadds are user available on that.

But I still come back to the RP/X hardware box as my reference sound for a 'non-physical' piano.

And I layer sounds to fit the purposes of the environment (solo vs. accompaniment or with a group) and mood (rousing sing-a-long vs. quiet meditation vs. aural mysteries).

Though if any team's better kitted up to do it we aren't hearing about it. Perhaps an arm within the team might take shape and have a go at it, see if it flies. I'd buy. Been waiting for such a thing since the Amiga.

Imagine a hybridising  instrument that inherits pianoforte's ADSR envelope (a limitation) as default, but with tinkering capability like Note Edit addressed to the various sections of it, and polyphonic aftertouch addressed particularly to the Decay section.

Now throw in a Clarinet formant, for example, for the Note Edit to tinker with, and it'd be interesting. Pianists might love its abilities, organists, composers definitely. Some of them anyway, non-purists all.

And like when I heard of Pianoteq, I'd buy. Take all of twenty minutes.

Even the best ascoustic piano is not a perfect instrument. It has flaws, such as string inharmonicity and structural resonances, which tend to give each piano distinctive characteristics. Stretch tuning is an attempt to compensate for the inharmonicity, but it introduces pitch inaccuracy. So, even if it were possible to attain perfect emulation of an acoustic piano in software, would that be optimal? Or would it be preferable to improve upon the characteristics of an acoustic piano? I think if it is possible, why not strive to make a better instrument? It is a strength of Pianoteq that it has the potential to minimize or eliminate the inherent flaws of the acoustic piano.

Instead of expecting Pianoteq to sound exactly like an acoustic piano, I think of it as an electronic instrument that sounds like an acoustic piano but has fantastic qualities of its own. To start with, it is a delight to be able to play a piano that is always perfectly in tune. Considering all the various parameters of the sound and the effects that can be adjusted and optimized, Pianoteq is a sophisticated instrument that is itself a work of art.

Pianoteq require some patience to adjust the model, just as a real piano would require.

Patience Daniel-Son...

Have you tried the different eq-settings on the HS80M? (specially the mid...)

Yes, I have fussed around with that stuff.

Right now my settings are ...

MID EQ: -2dB

ROOM CONTROL: 0dB

HIGH TRIM: -2dB

LOW CUT: flat

eugene wrote:

.... toss the tin cans and string and play the instrument through a decent sound path.

Well, I am sure everyone is open to suggestions.

I am running through a Behringer XENYX mixer and two Yamaha HS80M powered monitors.

This may not be the best possible sound path but surely it is adequate to give a fair test for the sound quality.

Any suggestions for improvements without breaking the bank ?

Have you tried the different eq-settings on the HS80M? (specially the mid...)

.... toss the tin cans and string and play the instrument through a decent sound path.

Well, I am sure everyone is open to suggestions.

I am running through a Behringer XENYX mixer and two Yamaha HS80M powered monitors.

This may not be the best possible sound path but surely it is adequate to give a fair test for the sound quality.

Any suggestions for improvements without breaking the bank ?

Well, it appears everyone with an opinion has weighed in.

I pretty much agree with what has been said.   I also like to change to different Pianoteq pianos and presets and play something just to hear the different sound.   I have pretty much stopped trying to create a better preset basically because of my view that my efforts will probably not result in something "better", only different.  I have settled in to layering and that is fine with me while I wait for the next version.  I have to remember that I have much to learn with the piano and my time is probably better spent practicing.

Not everyone... I'd add that one needs to clean the wax out of their ears, toss the tin cans and string and play the instrument through a decent sound path. Pianoteq 4 is the best piano emulation that I have ever played.