I think the designation virtual analog is bad. It has nothing to do with analog. It is a digital synthesizer. Sounds horrible for classic rock, blues, country etc.

This is not true. There are good VAs that can fit with most any genre. And they are called "virtual analog" for a reason. It is not a bad designation, it's what it is.

From my experience, no, they don't. Nords are overhyped, but in the end too limited boards with a hefty price tag.

This is also not true. Little Phatty sounds awesome and screams "Moog" with just about every soundwave it produces. Voyager is even better. Of course, Model D is Model D, no doubt about it. But to say that it has less soul and expression is purely ridiculous, because LP and Voyager have MORE possibilities for expression (more modulators and modulation destinations) than the original Minimoog. So yeah, you're wrong.

Also, Little Phatty and Voyager are 100% Made in USA.

I think the designation virtual analog is bad. It has nothing to do with analog. It is a digital synthesizer. Sounds horrible for classic rock, blues, country etc. Digital synths (VA, new workstations) are usable for use in electronica, hiphop, modern dance, pop, metal etc and in studio. Analog synths and analog keyboards are usable in all genres of music and sound perfect on stage as in studio.

Maybe some ROMplers (Nord C2, Stage, Hammond SK-1 etc) have the same good sound as real analog vintage keyboards.

I think difference between old vintage analog synthesizers and new analog synthesizers is the same as difference between vintage pure valve ampflifiers and new reissues. The new reissues (made in China in most cases) sound as totally other ampflifier, a dummy. New Moog Little Phatty has noticeably less soul and expression then Minimoog or Moog Prodigy e.g.

Think twice before buying those old machines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmAOLsMFRJo&NR=1

I have to say I liked it when the synth lost its tuning; like a bunch of drunken wombles had broken into the concert hall. More interesting than anything else I heard...

Think twice before buying those old machines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmAOLsMFRJo&NR=1

I didn't know that Microsoft did analog synths before they did Windows :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmAOLsMFRJo&NR=1

Octave had their own factory mods for the Cat that you could pay extra for -
most of the circuit diagrams are lost, but I got a synth tech here in the UK to try his best guesses at them, he did a great job...... my Cat is back with him being re-capped at the moment - back next week! (typical huh? lol

Another thing that works wonders for any synth is playing it through a real amp, and a distortion pedal (my favourite is a £15 Rocktek 'Metal Worker'). People rarely play their VSTi's through anything but headphones or nice speakers!

Another thing that works wonders for any synth is playing it through a real amp, and a distortion pedal (my favourite is a £15 Rocktek 'Metal Worker'). People rarely play their VSTi's through anything but headphones or nice speakers!

To be fair, those 4 analogue machines you used to own are cute,
but they are not really major league analogue synths - they all have pretty basic architecture, and don't let you do really crazy modulation routings.

The CS20M had 2 VCOs, and I am quite familiar with complicated modulation...how else would I use Reaktor and my Arturia Moog Modular? I do agree, they were not "major league", but the analog circuitry was the same (generally). It's the sound of a real oscillator compared to a digital oscillator that is my point of comparison (not modulation), and the Moog and SC (and Yamaha) were certainly valid for that reference.

In terms of a more recent reference, I recently returned my Dave Smith Poly Evolver (rack) because it did not blow me away compared to my plugins. The modulation was certainly powerful, but it is not suited to producing 'pads' with only 4 voices. Yes, it can be expanded, but that seems cumbersome to me. He couldn't make it at least 6 voices? I am sure many people love it though.

I admit that real analog filters have some advantage over most VAs ( the Oasys sounds very good however ), but it's not enough to be compelling for me. Maybe just one analog keyboard (with poly-aftertouch) to sit beside my Numa. That Oberheim stuff looked interesting, but again, only 4 voices (and for almost $4,000!).

Your Octave Cat mod sounds intriguing...was that a factory mod or something you did yourself? Can you upload something that I could use for comparison? I guess I am saying that I accept your challenge!

JR

I also love my Roland Cr78 to bits, but it's not like you can really use it to fulfil all your drumming needs in 2011 lol

To be fair, those 4 analogue machines you used to own are cute,
but they are not really major league analogue synths - they all have pretty basic architecture, and don't let you do really crazy modulation routings.
It's when you get analogue machines that have dual VCOs that can cross-mod each other and do FM that you get into a whole new territory.
There's certainly very little you can do on an Opus 3 or Sixtrak that you couldn't easily do on a modern VSTi.

I'd happily challenge any softsynth to beat my Octave Cat though. I had it modded with a multimode filter and ring modulators and more..... it's dangerous

What old machines did you used to have?

('real' analog keyboards)
Moog Opus 3
Yamaha CS20M
Sequential Circuits 6 trak
Electro Harmonnix Mini

(honorable mention)
Yamaha CP35
Roland CR-78
Rhodes 88

(etc.)
much of the Ensoniq and Kurzweil stuff

It's typically the analog pad stuff that I reminisce about...the 6-trak also allowed stacking, so it had some really big sounds. The Yamaha CP35 had a connector for direct connection to the CS70M...I always lusted for that, the Prophet VS, and the Prophet T8. The things I do not miss are the lack of midi, the osc drift, lack of integration, the weight, repair, etc.

With some of my more recent (and more commercial) plugins, I do find that I can recreate those sounds, and even surpass them. I personally tend to glamorize the 'old analog' sounds, and I have to refresh my memory by actually comparing them to current plugins...works every time.

I also have a Korg Oasys pci that has unsurpassed analog emulation IMO....sadly, I rarely use it because I feel like it is 'outboard' gear. The convenience of plugins is just too compelling (did I mention convenient?) for me. I can get inspired just fine with Reaktor, OPX, Minimonsta, Moog Modular, Oasys, SampleMoog and a few others. However, I did do a lot of analog stuff when I had those 'real' keyboards, so maybe it is just proximity (making use of what you have).

I can't really  think of any advantage with analog, but I will agree that there is a customer for both. I am still looking for that "grit and magic" in a new keyboard, but everything seems to fall short. What are you using? The OP seems to have found his "magic" with the Arturia Origin. I always did like the idea of mixing and matching the bits to make something new, but I have Reaktor (not in the same class obviously, but similar capability).

I agree...that Rhodes 88 I used for gigging weighed quite a bit, and now I just use the Pianoteq Rhodes expansion with my Receptor. Now that is magical!

JR

There is nothing compelling enough about "real" analog for me...not right now anyway. I sold my analog keyboards years ago because they were limited, and they still are. I would be interested in something new but I am curious why there is so little to choose from...although this doesn't look too bad.

Really, every-time I convince myself that I need to get a real analog keyboard, I download all sorts of high quality files to compare with and I come to the same conclusion...it is just not 'knocking my socks off'. I go back to my old recordings to refresh my memory as to why I miss those keyboards I sold and I find that I am exaggerating the sonic quality in the mix. I spend a few hours going through my plugin presets and that brings me back to my senses.

It's more psychological and tactile than anything else...and a bit about bragging-rights I suppose. If you spend $20,000 on outboard analog gear I guess you have the right to flaunt it, but you'll never convince me it is worth that price...and it doesn't impress me.

JR

well, buy a virtual analog then

What old machines did you used to have?

I just know that I generally can't get the same sounds from virtual stuff that I can from my unruly real ones, in general.....

There's advantages and disadvantages of both - usually to me it's practicality vs inspiration and 'that little extra bit of grit or magic" -

a good example is Modartt's clavinet model in pianoteq vs my real D6 (which weights 26kgs, tends to go out of tune a big when gigged, picks up hideous amounts of 50Hz mains hum, and feeds back onstage from the monitors)

For example I made a synth which has nine JP8-oscillators detuned and ran through filters and lfos and finally three part effect section. And I can play this homemade-supersawbeast with my righthand with another multisawsynthpad in my lefthand and Origin can handle this without trouble. Those of us who are crazy enough to make experiments like this, Origin is a marvelous thing. Anyway for myself old analogs cannot compete with this close-enough emulation with such a power... Of course I am just speaking for myself; everyone here has his own priorities and standards. On the other hand I have a feeling that someone must say sometimes something positive about Arturia; It seems to be kind of a fashion to dismiss this company....

to be honest, all the virtual/modelled analogue stuff I've dried just sounds tame and sanitized to me - I own half a dozen real analogue synths (mostly bought cheap in the 1990s when nobody else wanted them) - the best ones like my Octave Cat and Transcendent 2000 are just *nasty*.
They have tons of limitations, but then so does a violin and a piano. Limitatins are good. Real analogue synths tend to be proper musical instruments and you have to learn to play them properly and mine the best depths out of them.

There is nothing compelling enough about "real" analog for me...not right now anyway. I sold my analog keyboards years ago because they were limited, and they still are. I would be interested in something new but I am curious why there is so little to choose from...although this doesn't look too bad.

Really, every-time I convince myself that I need to get a real analog keyboard, I download all sorts of high quality files to compare with and I come to the same conclusion...it is just not 'knocking my socks off'. I go back to my old recordings to refresh my memory as to why I miss those keyboards I sold and I find that I am exaggerating the sonic quality in the mix. I spend a few hours going through my plugin presets and that brings me back to my senses.

It's more psychological and tactile than anything else...and a bit about bragging-rights I suppose. If you spend $20,000 on outboard analog gear I guess you have the right to flaunt it, but you'll never convince me it is worth that price...and it doesn't impress me.

JR

http://memorymoon.com/me80.htm

For Another great emulation of analog synth (polykobol):

http://www.xils-lab.com/pages/PolyKB.html

And I agree for the sonicprojects OP-X PRO II it's really amazing.