I don't have experience with the newest iPads, but in the past the roundtrip latency was not on par with laptops/desktops.
Certainly low enough for many people, too high for me.

I'd strongly advice to either set up/upgrade the PC with a USB audio/midi interface with good drivers, or just get a basic macbook or mac mini + interface.
For Macs the low lever Motu interfaces (M2/4) are good candidates.

I personally use a M1 Macbook and a Motu M4, keyboard is a VPC1 connected via USB to the mac (midi over usb).
You can get sub 2ms latency with this setup. Probably the newer iPads with the M-series processors can get you there, too, but I haven't tested them. For some reason the iPads had worse latency figures in the past compared to desktops.

But as mentioned: for some people the latency on iPads is good enough, just forget bluetooth for the headphones IMHO. (for playing virtual instruments, OK for listening to music of course).

dikrek wrote:

Your Roland FP30X can be an ASIO-compatible audio interface. You just need to disable the local sounds (local off) and get the right drivers from Roland if needed.

Based on what I’ve read elsewhere and seen on Roland’s site, I don’t believe Roland has released ASIO drivers for their digital pianos. They seem to believe “class compliant” is good enough... which is true for Apple, but not for Windows. Class-compliant should work in Linux, but I have no idea if it can achieve low enough latency.

If you know where to get ASIO drivers for the Roland FP-X series, please tell. (I don’t have one myself, but there are certainly people here and elsewhere who would be interested.)

This is where you check to see if it works well with WASAPI - the differences can be negligible in certain systems - and I mean pleasingly fast, low latency.

Your Roland FP30X can be an ASIO-compatible audio interface. You just need to disable the local sounds (local off) and get the right drivers from Roland if needed.

Based on what I’ve read elsewhere and seen on Roland’s site, I don’t believe Roland has released ASIO drivers for their digital pianos. They seem to believe “class compliant” is good enough... which is true for Apple, but not for Windows. Class-compliant should work in Linux, but I have no idea if it can achieve low enough latency.

If you know where to get ASIO drivers for the Roland FP-X series, please tell. (I don’t have one myself, but there are certainly people here and elsewhere who would be interested.)

All audio interface brands will tell you to avoid USB hubs if possible, and for a very good reason: bandwidth must be divided by the number of ports => more latency...

Edit: and avoid bluetooth of course: LOTS of latency

Not having issues with heavily occupied usb 3.0 (and above) mains powered USB hubs here. They are mostly occupied with other midi controllers. Those use up low bandwidth. I can use one of my keyboards which is a Korg with built-in audio interface perfectly well over a large USB hub. Nice low latency.

Unfortunately USB hubs are not all equal. Sometimes you have to try a few.

If using such a hub for backing up data to an external drive I would switch all the other inputs off on the USB hub. Even so I would expect such a process to work even if all the ports were occupied and the system was busy at the time. If USB 3 and above.

Hello,

I am about to enter the world of pianotec - I have grown tired of the piano options on my Roland fp30X, but love the action on it.

My laptop (a 2023 ASUS Vivobook with Integrated Realtek HD audio) doesn't seem be able to run the demo version without terrible latency (there is no ASIO driver available that it is possible to install on my machine).

I am planning to buy a new ipad, and use pianotec on that. I have not decided whether it will be the i-pad pro (M4 chip) or air  (M2 chip) - I assume the more powerful version would get me a better pianotec experience, given it does require processing power rather than lots of memory?

In terms of connections, as the new i-pad's have usb-c, I would think that I could connect using the apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter that would mean i could power the i-paid and connect the standard midi lead from the fp30x to the usbA port on the adapter. Or perhaps I am not understanding something - do I need some extra kit to make this work? Initially I will be listening via bluetooth headphones from the i-pad.

Any advice you can offer would be gratefully received. Sorry if this is a frequent question, and don't hesitate to refer me to idiot's guides in other threads if this has already been covered in detail before.

Chris

Your Roland FP30X can be an ASIO-compatible audio interface. You just need to disable the local sounds (local off) and get the right drivers from Roland if needed.

Try that first.

Try to use 128 buffer for ASIO and not higher. Reduce latency.

Thanks all for your comments. Using Pianoteq obviously needs some thought! I guess it really requires me to try out various options, but the challenge is doing so without committing myself to expensive kit

My Windows 11 laptop spec is:

Processor    12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1255U   1.70 GHz
Installed RAM    16.0 GB (15.7 GB usable)
System type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

Using the ASIO for all drivers on my laptop improves latency, but is still pretty much unplayable. I'm not familiar with WASAPI, so I'll look into it.

The i-pad purchase is for many purposes - I need to do some digital art editing, plus they are so versatile I'll probably end up using it as my 'laptop' when I'm out and about.  So it might be the way to go, particularly now they have usb-c ports - with a usb-c hub I can attach the i-pad to my roland piano, power the i-pad and have a stereo audio out for headphones or other amplification. I'll avoid bluetooth connections completely....

You are already there!

Your processor is more than capable enough. It should cope with multiple instances with low latency:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en...tions.html

Edit: and avoid bluetooth of course: LOTS of latency

My Windows 11 laptop spec is:

Processor    12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-1255U   1.70 GHz
Installed RAM    16.0 GB (15.7 GB usable)
System type    64-bit operating system, x64-based processor

Using the ASIO for all drivers on my laptop improves latency, but is still pretty much unplayable. I'm not familiar with WASAPI, so I'll look into it.

The i-pad purchase is for many purposes - I need to do some digital art editing, plus they are so versatile I'll probably end up using it as my 'laptop' when I'm out and about.  So it might be the way to go, particularly now they have usb-c ports - with a usb-c hub I can attach the i-pad to my roland piano, power the i-pad and have a stereo audio out for headphones or other amplification. I'll avoid bluetooth connections completely....

cpwaite wrote:

Hello,

I am about to enter the world of pianotec - I have grown tired of the piano options on my Roland fp30X, but love the action on it.

My laptop (a 2023 ASUS Vivobook with Integrated Realtek HD audio) doesn't seem be able to run the demo version without terrible latency (there is no ASIO driver available that it is possible to install on my machine).

I am planning to buy a new ipad, and use pianotec on that. I have not decided whether it will be the i-pad pro (M4 chip) or air  (M2 chip) - I assume the more powerful version would get me a better pianotec experience, given it does require processing power rather than lots of memory?

In terms of connections, as the new i-pad's have usb-c, I would think that I could connect using the apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter that would mean i could power the i-paid and connect the standard midi lead from the fp30x to the usbA port on the adapter. Or perhaps I am not understanding something - do I need some extra kit to make this work? Initially I will be listening via bluetooth headphones from the i-pad.

Any advice you can offer would be gratefully received. Sorry if this is a frequent question, and don't hesitate to refer me to idiot's guides in other threads if this has already been covered in detail before.

Chris

Try ASIO4ALL on your Windows machine or a USB audio card for your notebook. Laptops and IPADs will not oerform quite as well as faster machines and
Or dedicated hw.

Hmm..
This very much depends on the age and power of the equipment you are comparing. It is safe to say as a rule of thumb a desktop version (same generation) of the same processor is substantially more powerful than the version in most laptops.

You really have to directly compare the paper specs of two processors. My current desktop i5 is more powerful than some of the i9 processors from 1 or 2 years before - even desktop versions!

Also sometimes windows WASAPI can throw you a curveball and actually outperform any of the ASIO driver options available. Both can potentially give you very low - pleasingly low unnoticeable latency.
I would suggest always trying ASIO first but WASAPI in Windows can be vanishingly low on latency too, and can sometimes be quite a bit better than ASIO in this regard.

So suck it and see on Windows machines!

So to the OP- test the Windows/WASAPI driver too against ASIO (especially if all you've got is Realtek. Often there is nothing between them.

As for the power of any processor you are better off generally (if the price is difference isn't too grievous) going for the more powerful option, as even when it won't necessarily give you an immediate improvement/advantages to Pianoteq the unit will have greater longevity/Headroom for advances in the software, and of course any other programs.

If you choose to run multiple instances of Pianoteq within a DAW with other plugins you will be much better off with a more powerful processor (within reason).

I prefer desktops myself I will sacrifice space for serviceability, upgrades, generally better performance, being able to spec the machine myself.

With focusrite audio interface volume control is way much easier than with laptop only. You have a nice physical knob to adjust volume level. Also you get line out signal to your powered monitors when you later want add those into your setup.  :=)

So basically if you have a laptop it is most likely powerful enough to run Pianoteq. You need a ASIO - driver to be able to have low enough latency to play. This applies to all other VSTs. Dedicated audio interface ( like Focusrite) in not mandatory but nice and handy to have.

Hope this clears something....

When I had my 2015 Acer Aspire e15 with i7, my Pianoteq give so much latency and crackle sound at higher setting. After I bought used 2011 MacBook Pro 13 inch, those latency is gone.

For any computer windows, getting external sound card (like other replies said) is the best option to keep us focus on making music.

Cheers.

Luc Henrion wrote:

I second this, before investing in anything : "Try ASIO4ALL on your Windows machine or a USB audio card for your notebook"

Thanks everyone. I have just tried with ASIO4ALL, and it has improved latency (I might be able to improve it further once I understand all the settings on it).

An external soundcard (is that the same as an audio interface?) - would the https://focusrite.com/products/scarlett-solo be sufficient. I assume the piano midi cable is plugged into this once it is hooked up to my laptop?

I have some qualms about all of this because any latency would drive me NUTS, and I'm not that knowledgeable about musictech. I don't want to have to spend too much time on set up and adjustments... perhaps that means pianoteq is not for me?

"Too much time".. fastest setup but perhaps not the ultimate quality setup is probably a new iPad standalone. You had the answer already. I run it on Windows in a DAW with an audio card but everybody is different. You might note: bt is generally slower than wired MIDI or Audio, as mentioned cables are typically not the source of noticable latency, but hardware and software both are often responsible. Any way you go, if your sample rate is low enough (PT seems to target ~44khz/48 for its best sound, but you can totally go lower esp if tweaking) and buffer is high enough (I like lowest possible, but 5-20 ms can be pleasing too), you will get a decent polyphony and note to note synthesis capability. For you i maybe would go with fastest device possible that is convenient enough for your needs, then attach a USB audio processing device for that extra boost.

I don't want to have to spend too much time on set up and adjustments... perhaps that means pianoteq is not for me?

Key here is "too much". How much is "too much"? Digital software is always more time setting things up than acoustic (or even just digital hardware).

Windows is more time to set up than the Apple ecosystem, at least generally speaking (and generally speaking Windows allows more customization than Apple does -- now I expect somebody coming out screaming one example of the reverse being true for them as it typically happens when I make such generalization statements).

Only you can know how much is too much. The good news is that you can try the Focusrite with your machine. As they already suggested, pick a shop which will take it back "no question asked" if you are not happy with it. Spend the "not too much time" (which only you know how long it) is with it and pianoteq demo. I'll bet you can make it work to a very satisfactory level. If not, you have the option of the iPad.

My understanding (without having tried one yet, see my other posts where I am investigating the option) is that the iPad will be easier to make it work in an adequate way. By itself it may still have "too much" (how much is "too" much?) latency, especially if you get a new model without the line/headphone out, because the USB/lightning-to-audio translation might not be optimized for live playing (or maybe it is? maybe depends on the specific model?). The Focusrite could be useful here too (and you should plan for enough time in the return window if you want the option to make this test too). Depending on your needs for a iPad, you may decide exactly what to get. Again, without having tried one, my understanding is that even the M1 (and some of the latest pre-M models) were powerful enough to use pianoteq without hiccups. So if you want an iPad just for pianoteq, an used one is a price-attractive one. But then you won't have Apple's support, option to give it back if you don't like or whatever other perks come with a new model. On the other hand, if you want to use the iPad for other reasons, you should consider that too. Maybe you want to use it for reading music while playing -- some people do that, check the "ForScore" thread here. The short version is, for this reason you may want the largest screen (whereas for pianoteq alone you may want to smallest one, to save weight and having more options to hide it away)

Certainly not an answer, but hope this helps.

An external soundcard (is that the same as an audio interface?) - would the https://focusrite.com/products/scarlett-solo be sufficient. I assume the piano midi cable is plugged into this once it is hooked up to my laptop?

I have some qualms about all of this because any latency would drive me NUTS, and I'm not that knowledgeable about musictech. I don't want to have to spend too much time on set up and adjustments... perhaps that means pianoteq is not for me?

“External soundcard” and “audio interface” generally refer to the same thing: a USB audio interface like the Focusrite. The one you linked should be fine for your situation. However, Windows is a flaky beast with audio and it is always possible the Focusrite, or any other specific device, won’t work well with your system; so I advise buying it from somewhere that will take returns if you’re not happy with it.

You would still connect the FP-30X to your computer. The FP-30X doesn’t have an old-school MIDI out connector, nor does the Scarlett Solo have a MIDI in. That’s no problem. The latency doesn’t come from getting the MIDI in, it comes from getting the synthesized sound out. That’s what your audio interface will do. You connect the audio interface to your computer and connect your amplifier, powered speakers or headphones to the audio interface.

If you are using your laptop’s built-in speakers an audio interface won’t work without also adding external speakers or switching to headphones.

It is possible to feed the audio from your computer (not using an audio interface) back to the FP-30X to play on its speakers; getting latency low enough could be a problem. See comments on https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads...hread.html — looks like it works well on a MacBook, but too much latency on Windows.

There is always some latency. Sorry to put words in your mouth, but you don’t mean “any latency,” you mean “any noticeable latency.”

I second this, before investing in anything : "Try ASIO4ALL on your Windows machine or a USB audio card for your notebook"

Thanks everyone. I have just tried with ASIO4ALL, and it has improved latency (I might be able to improve it further once I understand all the settings on it).

An external soundcard (is that the same as an audio interface?) - would the https://focusrite.com/products/scarlett-solo be sufficient. I assume the piano midi cable is plugged into this once it is hooked up to my laptop?

I have some qualms about all of this because any latency would drive me NUTS, and I'm not that knowledgeable about musictech. I don't want to have to spend too much time on set up and adjustments... perhaps that means pianoteq is not for me?