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Thoughts after playing the Vidal for some hours (more hours than I expected at one time, because the experience was so satisfying)--

Part of me wants to dislike the Vidal because the action is physically and conceptually so simple, in comparison with the complex action of acoustic pianos and those of digital pianos with many moving parts and points of interconnection or shared surfaces for each key. Each key of the Vidal is simply a long wooden keystick with weights on either end, that acts as a lever on a balance point fulcrum with rails toward either end to limit its upward and downward movement, positioned above a MIDI velocity sensor strip. That description however belies how well and meticulously considered, designed and implemented the Vidal seems to be in all its details.

But a larger part of me loves the action and the feel of the keys under the fingers. It is easy to use finger force against the heavy but well balanced weight and inertia of the keys to achieve a booming fortissimo, yet it is also easy to play delicately and expressively, with little finger force, and the Vidal and its MIDI sensor respond appropriately and sensitively. Most digital pianos I've played including the Kawai VPC1 and MP11SE seem to favor the high-midrange of MIDI velocity values, making it too easy to reach near the maximum value and almost impossible to play consistently or expressively in the softer, quieter piano or pianissimo range, and seem to compress the range of MIDI velocity values such that sometimes elaborate velocity curves must be used to simulate a wide range of dynamic expressivity within a rather narrow range of finger force or key movement.

The Vidal on the other hand responds wonderfully to a full range of finger force and speed of finger movement, mapping it appropriately and expressively to a full range of MIDI velocity values. This fact invites and allows one to play more sensitively and expressively as on a good acoustic piano, without having to restrain oneself to avoid playing too loudly (producing too high MIDI velocity values), while simultaneously needing to play with more force than should be necessary to produce quieter notes or phrases.

So far, playing the Vidal is a very satisfying and enjoyable experience. It is a relief to have such an expressive, responsive MIDI controller after so many years and playing so many MIDI controllers that seem like disappointing substitutes for a real acoustic piano.

Many people including myself wonder or wondered how well the Vidal would allow for rapid repetition of individual notes, a kind of stress test for a piano action. Most acoustic piano actions have mechanisms that catch and prevent the full fallback of a hammer to its resting position in order to facilitate the production of rapid repetitions of a note. The Vidal, like most MIDI keyboard controllers or digital pianos, doesn't have this complexity of the physical structure and function of the action of each key. However, for some reason (I don't know how or why), the Vidal performs or allows for more rapid repetition of a single note than other MIDI controllers I've owned (probably more than a dozen at this point) or played, although I've not so far played one of the digital piano hybrids with actions that mimic or resemble those of acoustic pianos, nor the Yamaha MIDI-equipped Disklavier.

All in all so far, I'm very happy with the Vidal and impressed with the ideals of Tom and the Vidal team, and their realization of those ideals, and am surprised at how good the Vidal's keys feel under the fingers and how satisfying the instrument is to play.

joannchr wrote:

... There is one thing it would be great for you to report is the way the keyboard responds when you play fast repeated notes with one hand only . The pictures show double sensors so I would imagine they have positioned the top sensors relatively low to allow good repetition speed similar to what Casio has done with the PX-S 5,6 7000 series

That's a good point and great idea. Fast repetition seems to have been a weak point or difficult challenge in digital or MIDI keyboards since they were introduced. However, most acoustic piano actions include a mechanism for catching the hammer before it falls back completely to its initial resting position, in order to facilitate rapid repetition of a single note. Does anyone know of a digital piano that includes a similar mechanism?

I am not aware of any digital piano replicating the escapement mechanism that truly replicates the double escapement system . Only hybrid Novus and Avant Grand Series replicate it given they use a true action derived from acoustic pianos. On digital pianos, the standard way of replicating double escapement is done with triple sensors implementation and notes can be repeated from the moment the key has passed the middle sensor . The velocity of repeated notes is usually calculated  between middle sensor and the bottom sensor, allowing fast repetition and early reset of the key.  Note off velocity is usually calculated between middle and top sensor. There are however , variations between the different vendor firmware implementations. So key reset is simulated, however at the difference of acoustic actions , the hammer in a digital pianos is constantly linked mechanically via an articulated lever of directly attached to the key and is never in free flight like in acoustic action.

... There is one thing it would be great for you to report is the way the keyboard responds when you play fast repeated notes with one hand only . The pictures show double sensors so I would imagine they have positioned the top sensors relatively low to allow good repetition speed similar to what Casio has done with the PX-S 5,6 7000 series

That's a good point and great idea. Fast repetition seems to have been a weak point or difficult challenge in digital or MIDI keyboards since they were introduced. However, most acoustic piano actions include a mechanism for catching the hammer before it falls back completely to its initial resting position, in order to facilitate rapid repetition of a single note. Does anyone know of a digital piano that includes a similar mechanism?

sigasa wrote:

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

Please post your thoughts and impressions when you receive the Vidal.
I will as well, when the Vidal I ordered arrives in a few days (I received notice that it has been shipped).

I hope you will both be very happy with your new keys. All the very best. And happy playing!!!

Warmest regards,

Chris

I have owned and used (among others) a Studio Logic SL88 Grand, a Kawai MP11SE and a Kawai VPC1 (which I still have), so I will be able to make a comparison between the Vidal and my experience with the actions of those other MIDI keyboard controllers.

lucky you. The quality looks amazing compared to main stream digital pianos . There is one thing it would be great for you to report is the way the keyboard responds when you play fast repeated notes with one hand only . The pictures show double sensors so I would imagine they have positioned the top sensors relatively low to allow good repetition speed similar to what Casio has done with the PX-S 5,6 7000 series

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

Please post your thoughts and impressions when you receive the Vidal.
I will as well, when the Vidal I ordered arrives in a few days (I received notice that it has been shipped).

I hope you will both be very happy with your new keys. All the very best. And happy playing!!!

Warmest regards,

Chris

I have owned and used (among others) a Studio Logic SL88 Grand, a Kawai MP11SE and a Kawai VPC1 (which I still have), so I will be able to make a comparison between the Vidal and my experience with the actions of those other MIDI keyboard controllers.

Animisha wrote:

Animisha wrote:

Vidal doesn't even ship to Sweden (where I live).

They do now, and I have bought one. It will arrive late Spring. I am so excited!

Please post your thoughts and impressions when you receive the Vidal.
I will as well, when the Vidal I ordered arrives in a few days (I received notice that it has been shipped).

I hope you will both be very happy with your new keys. All the very best. And happy playing!!!

Warmest regards,

Chris

Animisha wrote:

Vidal doesn't even ship to Sweden (where I live).

They do now, and I have bought one. It will arrive late Spring. I am so excited!

Please post your thoughts and impressions when you receive the Vidal.
I will as well, when the Vidal I ordered arrives in a few days (I received notice that it has been shipped).

Animisha wrote:

Vidal doesn't even ship to Sweden (where I live).

They do now, and I have bought one. It will arrive late Spring. I am so excited!

Great news. I'd love to hear about your experiences!

I recently bought a Yamaha NU1XA, which I use mainly as a MIDI controller for Pianoteq. Its key action is seriously good, and feels better than the VPC1 (which I had for 13 years). The Yamaha sends high-resolution note-on velocity (CC88), which I think does make an audible difference, but only fixed note-off velocity (at 64). This seems an issue with most/all 'hybrid' pianos. The sonic effect of note-off velocity is very subtle indeed, though, and I don't miss it during playing. I've developed a ReaScript in Pianoteq for adding variable note-off velocity afterwards, based on a set of parameters such as note length and note spacing.

Vidal doesn't even ship to Sweden (where I live).

They do now, and I have bought one. It will arrive late Spring. I am so excited!

It's in very good condition, doesn't show any signs of use really.

It's the perfect solution for me. Minimalistic and dedicated for home practicing due to it's weight, but still slab construction in case I decided it must travel.   It came in it's own original box too.

The action is much friendlier than my RD-64 for subtle work, although I kind of miss the fake Ivory-Feel key tops to the RD-64, the VPC-1 does feel a bit more 'plastic' to the touch, but it's largely about the action of course.

The RD-64 will continue to be my live setup but this VPC-1 will be with me for a long time to come I think.

Thank you, I am just interested in the use case: SL88 GT as plain MIDI Controller for Pianoteq. All that matters for me is the quality of the "normal/factory-default" velocity-curve called Medium, that you mentioned in post 46, and whether the KEY_SENSITIVITY parameter has influence on the MIDI output at all and if, what it does MIDI-wise. Maybe we know more in March ...

Unfortunately I had to return the NUMA X PIANO GT but tomorrow I will receive the old SL88 Grand which is not necessarily to be discarded even though it has been produced since 2015. I can't do the checks you ask me (in any case that KEY_SENSITIVITY parameter acts on the entire dynamics from pp to ff as if it were a sort of volume wheel)

The TP-40W keyboard of the SL88 Grand is heavier to the touch than the TP-400W of the SL88 GT MK2 (or NUMA X PIANO GT).

If it can be useful to you I can answer your question for the old SL88 Grand.

Pianistically wrote:

For me too it was a problem not being able to attenuate the f/ff/fff dynamics of Studiologic NUMA X PIANO GT.

... wait a minute ... you are talking about a problem with the internal sounds of the Numa X Piano GT?

Yes, I tried the internal acoustic piano sounds of the NUMA X PIANO GT keyboard but I have the impression that it can also happen with external sounds.

For classical use the most useful is VintageGrand in my opinion. There is a lot of variety of sounds but I think they were designed more for jazz or light music in general (I preferred the CFX sound of Yamaha P515 and WhiteGrand of Clavia Nord which seem more natural and fluid).
This is to say that perhaps Studiologic has chosen to make a velocity curve that allows you to play f/ff/fff without too much effort. Maybe it is not a problem but a choice and I think I could share it for that musical genre.

The real problem is that the new SL88 GT MK2 does not have internal sounds so I expect that you can customize the velocity curves otherwise it is a problem for me (KBD_SENSITIVITY is not enough and acts on all the velocity dynamics). However, NUMA X PIANO GT is an excellent instrument, very versatile and competitively priced, but for classical use only I think I would have preferred to use a Yamaha P515/P525 with the CFX sound.

For me too it was a problem not being able to attenuate the f/ff/fff dynamics of Studiologic NUMA X PIANO GT.

... wait a minute ... you are talking about a problem with the internal sounds of the Numa X Piano GT?