Note that this parameter only affects internal sounds , not midi output , as obviously Kawai cannot predict what is going to be the overall latency when you add external VST and audio system .

I should check it, but I believe it does affect the MIDI output, since I don't perceive any difference between Pianoteq and internal sounds.

Pianistically wrote:

marcos daniel wrote:

On the Kawai MP11, there is an added delay for softer notes (to simulate the flying time of the hammer). I don't know the figures, but the idea is that extra delay is zero for fff and the longest for ppp. I think it can be adjusted from the menu, but I use everything with default settings.

the parameter is called ‘hammer delay’ and varies from 1 to10 ms when it is set on ( f1 and A knob) default value is 1ms . I assume the internal sound when off is triggered before the key reaches keyboard bottom at very low velocities , so the delay allows adjustment to be in line with the values observed by askenfelt & Jansson and also Goebl in their studies .

Unfortunately, it seems the setting of the Kawai MP11 goes the opposite way of the principle observed by Askenfelt & Jansson : it delays the sound compared to action when playing pp whereas it should delay the sound when playing ff.

So the option should be avoided.

that’s what I thought too , but it may well be that the internal sound is triggered too early in the descent so adding delay allows more realistic delta before the key reaches the bottom. Hard to tell in all cases as human ear cannot detect 2 ms delay with complex sounds , only can detect it with ticks  and hard to measure too . Note that this parameter only affects internal sounds , not midi output , as obviously Kawai cannot predict what is going to be the overall latency when you add external VST and audio system .

goes the opposite way of the principle observed by Askenfelt & Jansson

Yes, indeed, for some reason it is done the other way around. Nevertheless, perhaps this setting can make playing on the extremely simplified mechanics of a digital instrument a little more enjoyable. This introduced time change is most likely only applicable for the first keystroke. Maybe for quick repeated clicks, this will create more difficulties for the performer. For an acoustic instrument, after the hammer has been captured on the fenger, repeated presses turn out to be very intriguingly playful in the temporary relationship between the hammer and the key.

marcos daniel wrote:

On the Kawai MP11, there is an added delay for softer notes (to simulate the flying time of the hammer). I don't know the figures, but the idea is that extra delay is zero for fff and the longest for ppp. I think it can be adjusted from the menu, but I use everything with default settings.

the parameter is called ‘hammer delay’ and varies from 1 to10 ms when it is set on ( f1 and A knob) default value is 1ms . I assume the internal sound when off is triggered before the key reaches keyboard bottom at very low velocities , so the delay allows adjustment to be in line with the values observed by askenfelt & Jansson and also Goebl in their studies .

Unfortunately, it seems the setting of the Kawai MP11 goes the opposite way of the principle observed by Askenfelt & Jansson : it delays the sound compared to action when playing pp whereas it should delay the sound when playing ff.

So the option should be avoided.

On the Kawai MP11, there is an added delay for softer notes (to simulate the flying time of the hammer). I don't know the figures, but the idea is that extra delay is zero for fff and the longest for ppp. I think it can be adjusted from the menu, but I use everything with default settings.

the parameter is called ‘hammer delay’ and varies from 1 to10 ms when it is set on ( f1 and A knob) default value is 1ms . I assume the internal sound when off is triggered before the key reaches keyboard bottom at very low velocities , so the delay allows adjustment to be in line with the values observed by askenfelt & Jansson and also Goebl in their studies .

Apparently, the work of the internal logic and the way the keyboard is scanned introduces such a jitter.

levinite wrote:

Difficult to play? I don't know, but wouldn't the usb signal normally be buffered and 're-clocked' by the computer it was sent to?

I will assume that midi messages acquire a timestamp when they enter the computer, so that the time distance between midi events should be preserved.

It is precisely because the delay values within the VPC are different that it can cause some inconvenience during play. If this delay were constant and the same, it might be nicer.

These inconveniences may manifest themselves when you play an acoustic instrument after playing on VPC. Or, when you start playing more, such as Liszt's pieces. If you play music on a VPC in a relaxed manner, then you are more likely to experience few or no inconveniences.

Ah, I see what you mean now. They could scan at a faster rate but there is always the cost factor, besides I'm sure there are few complaints because most people don't know such a thing occurs or have enough experience to notice as you have alluded to. Certainly, the ideal digital piano has not yet been designed; maybe, it never will.

I will assume that midi messages acquire a timestamp when they enter the computer, so that the time distance between midi events should be preserved.

It is precisely because the delay values within the VPC are different that it can cause some inconvenience during play. If this delay were constant and the same, it might be nicer.

These inconveniences may manifest themselves when you play an acoustic instrument after playing on VPC. Or, when you start playing more, such as Liszt's pieces. If you play music on a VPC in a relaxed manner, then you are more likely to experience few or no inconveniences.

Do you think this could be due to data buffering ? So a packet of data is processed and data inside the packet must « wait » for the next processing period. Thus, early data in the packet would be delayed by 3ms and early data would be delayed by only 0,5ms ?

Finally, today I got into my VPC1 with a signal analyzer. It was very interesting to find out if there is any internal delay between the activation of the third key sensor and the sending of MIDI data via USB.

And here is the result:

It can be seen that the delay is 2-3 milliseconds. On average. Once, even 0.5 milliseconds. Well, let it be if it was consistently the same. But it is unpredictably different. This makes it difficult to play. It seems to me that this is pretty bad.

Wow ! This is huge . Not that much as an absolute value but more about the fact that there is little computing performed internally by the Keyboard other than calculating velocity , transforming the velocity using internal velocity curve and formatting the note-on midi message prior to sending .

And here is the result:

It can be seen that the delay is 2-3 milliseconds. On average. Once, even 0.5 milliseconds. Well, let it be if it was consistently the same. But it is unpredictably different. This makes it difficult to play. It seems to me that this is pretty bad.