I use Swam Violin here, it is very musical.
(Other instruments aren't Swam's, only the violin is Swam.)
I have been trying Synful for more than 2 weeks now, and it is probably usable with keyboards for ensembles, but I would not recommend using it with wind controller for individual instruments the response is very poor, the articulations are not produced as they should the result is not good at all compare to SWAMs (I just hope Audio Modeling will make ensembles (String sections, Brass Sections ....) this is what they are missing even if you can build your own by layers.
I was very impressed by the demos of Synful, but when trying this is another story there is very little dynamics the presets sound heavily compressed ? Could be my settings, but I have tried many different settings
(e.g. Alto Sax 1; Tenor Sax 2; Alto Sax 3, Tenor Sax 4 & Baritone Sax 5 to make a sax Big Band Section with Alto Sax 2 different from Alto Sax 1 (timbre response) same as for Tenor Sax 2 & 4 using different panning for each
All other set will work fine 2 clarinets + Sax; 2 flutes + Sax ... you can build your own with individual instances in layers)Please apologize for my English
Fred
Strange, it can sound highly dynamic!
Horses for courses. I suggest SWAM is a different animal to Synful. They can complement each other. Also some tonal contrast between these different virtual versions of instruments can add a naturalistic variety to the tonality.
For composing with woodwinds and mass strings Synful is also excellent. Playing with keyboards with some pedal expression dynamics are fine. I do have other instruments I prefer for using with EWI.
For your swinging big band experience you would look elsewhere for saxophones etc. Also Synful clarinet sound is weak, so it would need to be used sparingly to hide shortcomings.
I'm not suggesting Synful can replace these physical modelled cousins but work in harmony. It's always been overlooked, it really shouldn't be now.
]]>Please apologize for my English
Fred
You just need a DAW for this. The quality is still excellent. Combine this with Pianoteq and SWAM engine instruments for impressive results.
I hope this gets the funds for further development.
Even as someone who plays EWI some of the brass here sounds remarkably natural without even needing the breath controller or EWI.
Now I do prefer to use a breath controller or wind controller for individual instruments (enjoying the experience of playing) but for just inputting from midi keyboard (and occasionally using expression pedal) this is special. It doesn't feel like triggering a cardboard cutout sound like so many sampled instruments.
As it's now free maybe I'm already preaching to the converted?
I think everyone that's got Pianoteq and SWAM instruments should have this.
]]>Currently just on regular EWI with expression pedals which I'm still enjoying anyway. Tempted occasionally by NuRad. I'm not in that class to justify it though. Hopefully they won't have disappeared (or have gotten ridiculously expensive) by the time I feel worthy!
]]>Thanks Fred, I will have a closer look at this product later.
Nitpicking - For my taste the initial attack and swell on both versions still sounded artificial in the same way, not smooth - and both as if a single performer was creating that sound. To be fair the expression pedal or breath controller one was someone just rushing off a demo for YouTube in a demonstration.
Getting an exciting immediate attack and /or realistic believable swell sound and also not sounding like a single instrument performance is a hard one to pull off.The variation in human breath control still, well - err -humanizes music!
So much more potential than an expression pedal - to be fair they usually start at around 10 times the price though with expression pedals starting at £12 here!Breath control is so underrated in synthetic music making.
I don't think he is playing Swam's on this demo
NuRad with strings and brass sound:
https://youtu.be/cpo4wwGIRJ8?feature=shared
I don't think he is playing Swam instruments on this demo this was done to illustrate the NuRAD polyphonic capabilities
But I do agree that Wind Controllers are better for playing wind instruments, otherwise you need at least 3 pedals and 2 hands for a single note to do the same with a keyboard
Expression Pedal (for Breath Control = Volume & Timbre)
Pedal or polyphonic Aftertouch for Vibrato (but even so you can only control the depth of the vibrato not when it start and the delay) this can be easily handled with the bite sensor on the NuRAD (or the Lever)
Pedal or Mod wheel on Keyboards for effects such as Flutter (for Flute) or Growl (for Sax) (which can be done with the Lip sensor on the NuRAD)
And something to trigger the falls (which can be done with a pinky key on the NuRAD)
And you still have one additional possible control with the Lever (looks like a joystick on the right thumb)
Some wind controllers have even more with elevation, roll, and compass control.
Nitpicking - For my taste the initial attack and swell on both versions still sounded artificial in the same way, not smooth - and both as if a single performer was creating that sound. To be fair the expression pedal or breath controller one was someone just rushing off a demo for YouTube in a demonstration.
Getting an exciting immediate attack and /or realistic believable swell sound and also not sounding like a single instrument performance is a hard one to pull off.
The variation in human breath control still, well - err -humanizes music!
So much more potential than an expression pedal - to be fair they usually start at around 10 times the price though with expression pedals starting at £12 here!
Breath control is so underrated in synthetic music making.
NuRad with strings and brass sound:
https://youtu.be/cpo4wwGIRJ8?feature=shared
LTECpiano wrote:With all due respect to the SWAM Big Band Walkthrough ... here is yours truly playing my Hammond XB-3M (from 2001 - 22 years ago)
Definitely a worthy comparison.
That still sounds comparable in quality for the big band brass sound .
I think I am with Fred on this one though too. The strength of the SWAM products is mainly in individual solo performance. Certainly that's what I want mainly from using wind controllers.
Swam’s are much better in all areas not only for solo parts
When playing a Sample bank even if part of a hardware synth you play the same sample on all instruments when you play a chord on your keyboard
In an orchestra each instrument sound differently (if you have 10 1st violin each of them sound different and are plaid differently by each individual players they are not perfectly synchronized they do not play the articulation exactly the same way these are very small differences but this is how it sound « real » the technology used (modeling) recreate the sound for each note
That is where divisimate make the different
When you play a chord each note is sent to a different instrument with a % of delay slightly different velocity therefore the modélisation is also different ans the sound is different for each note and this is how to create realistic ensembles
Try a sample bank with Divisimate and with Swam’s and you will ear the difference
With all due respect to the SWAM Big Band Walkthrough ... here is yours truly playing my Hammond XB-3M (from 2001 - 22 years ago)
Definitely a worthy comparison.
That still sounds comparable in quality for the big band brass sound .
I think I am with Fred on this one though too. The strength of the SWAM products is mainly in individual solo performance. Certainly that's what I want mainly from using wind controllers.
Key Fumbler wrote:Perhaps they prefer a wealthier clientele?, they don't really want greater mass market success?
Perhaps they are more comfortable in a limited and loyal well heeled user base? - there is a case for that approach.I don't want to wind anyone up. The more the merrier.
anyone who uses SWAM instruments is wealthy and well-heeled but you don't want to wind anyone up
lol
There are enough facts on this thread to counter the misinformation. I'm out
I gave no misinformation here whatsoever, not even once, not even by accident.
Sales is a numbers game, it's silly to make it personal. Of course some people will be prepared to save up.
]]>Perhaps they prefer a wealthier clientele?, they don't really want greater mass market success?
Perhaps they are more comfortable in a limited and loyal well heeled user base? - there is a case for that approach.I don't want to wind anyone up. The more the merrier.
anyone who uses SWAM instruments is wealthy and well-heeled but you don't want to wind anyone up
lol
There are enough facts on this thread to counter the misinformation. I'm out
]]>With all due respect to the SWAM Big Band Walkthrough ... here is yours truly playing my Hammond XB-3M (from 2001 - 22 years ago)
As long as you do not have solo parts this is fine
https://youtu.be/koDvYh_CQrA?si=9Nnh3LK5XK9WUBiG
1 - "Currently they evidently don't offer trials, you actually have to ask them for them". (They do not directly downloadable, but they do, and I think the main reason is that they manage the licenses through their "Audio Modeling Software Center" which allow you to get the update even during the demo period).
2 - "The iOS versions are only Apple Product compatible". This is not completely true because (e.g. Camelot Pro is compatible with VST2, VST3 and AU If you are on Windows you will not get the AU plugins so if you build your scenes, Songs, Set list only with VST3 and you export it, when you will import it in IOS you will not see the plug ins (This is what I did, and I just have had to change the plugin's to AU version but everything else was OK (Backing Tracks, Instruments templates, Markers, scenes song set List) So if you are on Mac environment use AU you will have no issue to export / Import into iOS. As far as I know, no other company allows this (Main Stage only works on Mac.)
All the SWAM presets saved on MacOS can be used in the Windows version.
iOS Swam's are cheaper because some of their parameters are restricted to full version but if you have the full version on Mac or PC when importing in the iOS version all parameters are taken into account (even restricted ones)
3 - SWAM is a synthesizer product, not a massive sample library product, therefore no decent reason to not offer a demo version without having to ask for or give your email information over. Because of "Audio Modeling Software Center" you can use a dedicated mail address, not a big deal.
4 - "They have every opportunity to change their ways. I very much doubt they will but I would like to have the opportunity to try their products without feeling pressurized into buying anything. " Which pressure ? I have tried Tenor Sax, Violin, Flute, Trumpet, Trombone one year before I decide to buy the product I did not receive any pressure from audio modeling to buy anything !
5 - "iOS products are nearly always starting from a vastly cheaper price point". (some parameter cannot be changed on the iOS version unless you do the changes on the Mac or Windows version and export / import in iOS
6 - "I wish them well, and I hope they continue to grow as a company if the quality keeps improving. I also hope they improve in the sales model. As you point out, they probably won't have to if it's doing so well for them." If you look back this is what Pianoteq did If you compare Version 3 of Pianoteq with version 8 it is a different instrument they did not stop improving their product adding some new instruments, Audio Modeling is also improving timbre, playability, usability in each new version.I have no financial interest in Audio Modeling, but they have a decent support they are making regular updates I have seen other companies with a worst approach, and they are customer oriented taking users remarks into account
So yes they are expensive, Yes their marketing approach is probably not ideal, So What !
Welcome to see another wind controller player enthusiasm for physical modelling.
An actual whinge from me: Your answers were rather hard to read as they blended with my points/questions. I did understand them though because they were my points you were answering, others might find it harder to read.
"So what" you say and you are perfectly entitled to that opinion, as I am perfectly entitled to point out that I believe it to be both suboptimal for the potential customers (and therefore their sales potential) and I won't be trying them on that basis. No great loss for them - I wouldn't even be a blip on their balance sheets!
Perhaps they prefer a wealthier clientele?, they don't really want greater mass market success?
Perhaps they are more comfortable in a limited and loyal well heeled user base? - there is a case for that approach.
I don't want to wind anyone up. The more the merrier.
]]>I have no financial interest in Audio Modeling, but they have a decent support they are making regular updates I have seen other companies with a worst approach, and they are customer oriented taking users remarks into account
So yes they are expensive, Yes their marketing approach is probably not ideal, So What !
]]>