Full announcement in blog--
https://playvidal.com/blogs/news/first-...as-started

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Sorry folks...
Long pivot it's importat for many pianists, specially the ones used with concert grand pianos.
The short pivot piano action photo from of a Steinwain means nothing. First because it's not made by Steinway, and seconde because it can be from a baby grand piano, which uses short pivot action.

I believe the Vidal folks are still prototyping and testing different key lengths, including longer ones.  If they incorporate the length of full (e.g., Steinway D) concert grand keys (adding about 6" or 150mm), it might result in effects on size, weight and stability of the entire design that render it impractical as a portable keyboard.  However, it might be feasible to lengthen it to Steinway B size (adding about 1.5" or 35mm). A full concert keyboard would be fine for a home or studio, but it might be quite a task to transport it to gigs without assistance.

Now is the time write to them to share your suggestions for their design....They are still developing and prototyping, so they want to know what potential users would actually prefer (and purchase), and what features are most important to you in a piano controller.

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

The Vidal Piano Controller keys are ~19 inches (480 millimeters) long from front to back.
A full-size Steinway grand piano's keys are ~24 inches long, but that includes several inches of the key behind the capstan which pushes the hammer action upward, to accommodate each key's hammer backcheck, as well as a horizontal bend in many of the wooden keys to accommodate string positions.

Can you point me to the source you are using for the 480 mm length of the Vidal keys? Thanks!

Oh, sorry...I found it in their new blog post.

The Vidal Piano Controller keys are ~19 inches (480 millimeters) long from front to back.
A full-size Steinway grand piano's keys are ~24 inches long, but that includes several inches of the key behind the capstan which pushes the hammer action upward, to accommodate each key's hammer backcheck, as well as a horizontal bend in many of the wooden keys to accommodate string positions.

Can you point me to the source you are using for the 480 mm length of the Vidal keys? Thanks!

The longest keys of a full-size Steinway grand piano are about 24 inches long, but that includes a bend in some of the keys to accommodate the positions of the strings they are intended to strike, as well as the several inches of key behind the capstan (the broad-headed metal pin that pushes the hammer action upward) to accommodate the hammer backcheck, which adds weight and inertia but has little effect on the leverage ratio on either side of the fulcrum.

The Vidal Piano Controller does not require a hammer backcheck or the additional length of key needed for it, and incorporates a metal weight at the back of each key which substitutes for the weight of the additional several inches of wood and mechanism at the rear of acoustic grand piano keys.

The image below is for comparison and lever location between a modern Steinway grand piano action and the Vidal Piano Controller.
The Vidal Piano Controller seems (to me) to compare favorably or similarly in terms of leverage (the fulcrum point) and inertial weight (as detailed in the blog update at the webpage mentioned above).

Beto-Music wrote:

It's really way longer pivot point in the older design. Short pivot spoils the whole thing.

Just noticed that... that's a bummer. Not that I had the budget for it in the first place, but seems likely that more realistic "grand" action could be had for less money.

The new pivot point appears to be where it would be on a true grand action, at least as nearly as I can measure in photos. The stated goal of the new design is to come closer to the inertial feel of a standard grand action, which pivots approximately at the center of the white keys, measured front to back.  This is not a "short" pivot, it is a more accurate pivot, I think. Perhaps the Vidal designers can clarify here?

It's really way longer pivot point in the older design. Short pivot spoils the whole thing.

Just noticed that... that's a bummer. Not that I had the budget for it in the first place, but seems likely that more realistic "grand" action could be had for less money.

Now they have a problem to solve...

The vidal removed the springs and placed huge lead weights.
This new version will probably going heavier.
I can't figure how the magnets are now...

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0620/...1707754261

Vidal seemed to me to be a good proposal for innovation in the search for an action closer to the conventional piano.
I would buy it if it weren't so expensive. But I understand that, as it is an almost artisanal construction, it would be impossible to do it for less.
Furthermore, I don't give up the 88 keys.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0620/...1707754261

dulistan heman wrote:

Roland already has MIDI 2.0. I wonder if Pianoteq can give that amount of 65536 velocity to represent 127 current velocity.

Yeah, I've been curious about this also! In theory, it seems like it would be most noticeable for users with aggressive velocity curves. There can be a bit of a trade-off today between getting the "right" feel without losing velocity resolution.

Do you know of any premium hammer action Roland (or other) controllers with MIDI 2.0? I know the A88 MK2 has it, which uses their entry-level PHA4 action, but wasn't sure if anything else did.

I don't know if PHA-4 performs better when in a stiffer chassis, or if it's possible that Roland treat them differently between different versions. I'm guessing not a whole lot of difference even if they do. Nonetheless Roland must have a lot of faith in that action, regardless of price.

MIDI 2.0 compatibility I believe is also in the new graded hammer action NI poly aftertouch keyboard. Again it's a multi purpose controller - very high end in that market,  but I'm guessing run of the mill entry level as piano controllers go - given the price of high end digital pianos.

As for the velocity curves I suggest that if you have to use very aggressive curves to correct for the velocity response of a keyboard regardless of the amount of digital steps mechanically it's not that well designed (or faulty) and should be replaced.
That's not to say that would be the case if we were talking a special setting for a special preset.

Mechanical action is by far the most important factor and customers for this Vidal controller will know that.

Roland already has MIDI 2.0. I wonder if Pianoteq can give that amount of 65536 velocity to represent 127 current velocity.

Yeah, I've been curious about this also! In theory, it seems like it would be most noticeable for users with aggressive velocity curves. There can be a bit of a trade-off today between getting the "right" feel without losing velocity resolution.

Do you know of any premium hammer action Roland (or other) controllers with MIDI 2.0? I know the A88 MK2 has it, which uses their entry-level PHA4 action, but wasn't sure if anything else did.