While there are better options in a small form factor the Raspberry Pi 5 is already out and is massively more powerful than it's predecessor, and still of course cheap.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ra...%20faster.

Even that one is going to be underpowered for a lot of people's requirements - high polyphony and multiple instruments simultaneously..

At this point even if you had a 4 spare I still wouldn't try it when the five is available - and more powerful small form factor computers.

I've built a couple Raspberry Pi's to use with Pianoteq and also a couple to use as streamers (more specifically Roon endpoints).

Even for streamers most people using hats I encountered were much more interested in hats for sending digital audio to an external DAC.  Very few people were interested in a hat with a built-in DAC.  Some audiophiles think that the audio quality is improved using S/PDIF or AES/EBU versus a USB DAC.  That might have been true for the Raspberry Pi3 which had USB contention issues but people do it with the Pi4 as well.

For Pianoteq I don't think a Raspberry Pi is a very good choice right now, largely because it hasn't been updated in so long and so there are many newer small-form-factor computers that have much higher performance in the same price ballpark.  The Pi4 prices do appear to have come down some versus the ridiculous prices they were going for during the shortage not that long ago.

After trying the Pi4's, one that I got which I really liked is called the MeLE Quieter3C.  Here are some of the advantages versus a Pi4:

- vastly better performance

- it comes preassembled

- the case is much slimmer and more attractive than any Pi4 case I've ever seen

- it uses an Intel CPU so you can run Windows if you want (it comes preinstalled), or you can run just about any flavor of Linux (Ubuntu Mate is a pretty close match if you like the standard Raspberry Pi flavor of Linux).

- it comes with eMMC storage and you can also add internal NVMe SSD storage.  Both are way faster than Micro SD cards or USB-based storage for the Pi4.

Thank you again for the heads up on these amazing fan free mini pcs. I took the plunge and bought the MeLE Quieter 3Q. It runs Pianoteq beautifully! I am quite amazed at how well such a small form factor pc can do so.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09XPTKQRW/...rd_plhdr=t

I also bought a 7 inch touch screen monitor which I use with it. I bought these to use in church as they are easier to carry than my laptop which needs an external fan as the internal fan has packed in. I didn't fancy lugging these along with my PX-S5000. The mini pc and mini monitor will fit in a small bag or even in one of the two pockets of the dedicated PX-S5000 carry case.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Monit...dd101b8590

I'm getting great performance from this new setup even though I've done nothing to maximize performance. I will most definitely need to do so though to get rid of things like Windows noises etc, etc.

I would humbly recommend these MeLE QUIETER min pcs to anyone who needs a small and silent setup for gigging.

Warmest regards,

Chris

sigasa wrote:

MeLE Overclock3C N5095 16GB 512GB Windows 11 Pro Micro PC,Small Desktop Computer on Business Education Home, Triple Screen Display 4K HDMI Full Function USB-C WiFi 6 Gigabit Ethernet BT5.2 VESA Mount https://amzn.eu/d/1J9SAcf

Would this run Pianoteq well?

That should be pretty much identical performance to the Quieter3C that I got, so it should run Pianoteq quite well.  The main difference is that the one you're referring to is bigger and has a fan, whereas the Quieter3C that I got is smaller and fanless (it uses the more power-efficient N5105 variant of the CPU).

Thank you for the heads up kanefsky,

Warmest regards,

Chris

MeLE Overclock3C N5095 16GB 512GB Windows 11 Pro Micro PC,Small Desktop Computer on Business Education Home, Triple Screen Display 4K HDMI Full Function USB-C WiFi 6 Gigabit Ethernet BT5.2 VESA Mount https://amzn.eu/d/1J9SAcf

Would this run Pianoteq well?

That should be pretty much identical performance to the Quieter3C that I got, so it should run Pianoteq quite well.  The main difference is that the one you're referring to is bigger and has a fan, whereas the Quieter3C that I got is smaller and fanless (it uses the more power-efficient N5105 variant of the CPU).

Would this run Pianoteq well?

Warmest regards,

Chris

@kanefsky what performance index you get with the MeLE and with what settings? If you still have them around what did you get with a RPi4?

everybody: see also https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=8302 (where kingfisher got a performance index of 32 on a RPi4 -- and there is lots of more information)

The best I ever got on my overclocked RPi4 with realtime kernel and all the optimized settings and whatnot (based on the pianoteq-pi github project) was in the upper 20's.  On the MeLE I got in the mid 50's.  I don't have either one setup at the moment and it's been a while so I don't remember every detail that well.  Right now I'm just using an early 2020 M1 MacBook Air that gets 123.  Now that Pianoteq is available for iOS an old iPad would probably smoke them all as well.

There is the RPi5 that just came out which is about 2-3x faster in CPU than the RPi4 at about the same price (!)

@kanefsky what performance index you get with the MeLE and with what settings? If you still have them around what did you get with a RPi4?

everybody: see also https://forum.modartt.com/viewtopic.php?id=8302 (where kingfisher got a performance index of 32 on a RPi4 -- and there is lots of more information)

I am also looking for Raspberry Pi 5 vs. Mini-PC options for Pioanteq 8.
For the MeLE Quieter3C (or similar options?), do we need an extra audio card such as USB audio or does it work well with the onboard sound card? I plan to use it with headphones.

It will depend mostly on which headphones you're using and what volume levels you require.  High-impedence and/or low-sensitivity headphones will probably require a headphone amp if you want good volume levels, but some headphones may work fine without one.  The headphone amp could be a simple analog headhone amp like a Shiit Magni or it could be a full USB DAC + Headphone amp like a Topping DX1.  Both are only about $100.

I've built a couple Raspberry Pi's to use with Pianoteq and also a couple to use as streamers (more specifically Roon endpoints).

Even for streamers most people using hats I encountered were much more interested in hats for sending digital audio to an external DAC.  Very few people were interested in a hat with a built-in DAC.  Some audiophiles think that the audio quality is improved using S/PDIF or AES/EBU versus a USB DAC.  That might have been true for the Raspberry Pi3 which had USB contention issues but people do it with the Pi4 as well.

For Pianoteq I don't think a Raspberry Pi is a very good choice right now, largely because it hasn't been updated in so long and so there are many newer small-form-factor computers that have much higher performance in the same price ballpark.  The Pi4 prices do appear to have come down some versus the ridiculous prices they were going for during the shortage not that long ago.

After trying the Pi4's, one that I got which I really liked is called the MeLE Quieter3C.  Here are some of the advantages versus a Pi4:

- vastly better performance

- it comes preassembled

- the case is much slimmer and more attractive than any Pi4 case I've ever seen

- it uses an Intel CPU so you can run Windows if you want (it comes preinstalled), or you can run just about any flavor of Linux (Ubuntu Mate is a pretty close match if you like the standard Raspberry Pi flavor of Linux).

- it comes with eMMC storage and you can also add internal NVMe SSD storage.  Both are way faster than Micro SD cards or USB-based storage for the Pi4.

Hello,

I am also looking for Raspberry Pi 5 vs. Mini-PC options for Pioanteq 8.
For the MeLE Quieter3C (or similar options?), do we need an extra audio card such as USB audio or does it work well with the onboard sound card? I plan to use it with headphones.

Thank you!

I have no advice re: RPi itself, but I do have a suggestion.  I've run Pianoteq on RPi4, Macbook Air, iPads, iPhone, and Windows laptops.  The RPi4 will run Pianoteq okay, but it is somewhat underpowered, and it's not even really that simple a setup when you need to add soundcard/audio interface, no built-in display, and have it plugged in or have external battery attached all the time.  My suggestion is you should consider running Pianoteq on an iPad or an iPhone.  You can get used ones for fairly cheap, they are several times faster and more powerful than an RPi4, don't require an audio interface, have built-in display and battery, and are much more portable than an RPi.  You can get a good used iPhone SE (2020)  for around $150 (plus $20 to $40 for USB adapter if you don't want to use Bluetooth midi all the time). 

It's just a thought; something to consider.  If not for you, maybe it is something to think about for others reading this thread, especially if they have old iPhone or iPad lying around. . . .

I would agree with this.  The exception is if you're pretty comfortable with technology and want to setup the computer to be headless so that you can literally put it out of sight and pretend that your piano has built-in Pianoteq.  In this case you would either have one piano sound that you almost never change, or if your piano has any MIDI controls you could assign those to do something like change presets in Pianoteq.  It's possible to make the Raspberry Pi (or the MeLE or any similar SFF computer) act like a hardware module, so that you just turn it on and it works without ever needing to know that it's a little Linux computer running Pianoteq.  That's how I had mine setup.

If you want to have full control over Pianoteq at all times then you need at least a touchscreen if not a monitor+keyboard+mouse, in which case it's really not a great choice versus an old iPad or laptop or whatever.

Hi everybody !

After testing Pianoteq 8 on my computer and MIDI keyboard, I plan to buy and install Pianoteq 8 (probably pro) on a Raspberry 4. I would like to have some advice to be sure I buy the right hardware !

- About the model of Raspberry, seems that RPi 4B 4GB is fin.
- More important, about the soundcard, which one would be a good choice to have the less latency possible ? HifiBerry DAC2 Pro ? Is the DAC2 HD a better choice ? I don't know how to be sure...
- Maybe are there some other important things I should know to buy the right stuff ?

Thank you very much !

I have no advice re: RPi itself, but I do have a suggestion.  I've run Pianoteq on RPi4, Macbook Air, iPads, iPhone, and Windows laptops.  The RPi4 will run Pianoteq okay, but it is somewhat underpowered, and it's not even really that simple a setup when you need to add soundcard/audio interface, no built-in display, and have it plugged in or have external battery attached all the time.  My suggestion is you should consider running Pianoteq on an iPad or an iPhone.  You can get used ones for fairly cheap, they are several times faster and more powerful than an RPi4, don't require an audio interface, have built-in display and battery, and are much more portable than an RPi.  You can get a good used iPhone SE (2020)  for around $150 (plus $20 to $40 for USB adapter if you don't want to use Bluetooth midi all the time). 

It's just a thought; something to consider.  If not for you, maybe it is something to think about for others reading this thread, especially if they have old iPhone or iPad lying around. . . .

edit : about your post kanefsky, I guess this is another Raspberry-type mini computer ? But how Pianoteq run on this OS ? Is it based on linux too ?

Yes, it's another small-form-factor computer.  It's basically a very small PC, so it can run anything you could run on a PC including Windows and Linux -- either of which can run Pianoteq.  It can do everything a Raspberry Pi can do plus a lot more, and it's also a lot more powerful.  On a Raspberry Pi you have to reduce the Pianoteq quality settings because of the limited processing power, but on the MeLE you can turn the Pianoteq settings up to higher quality.

Audio interfaces are for the most part external devices (usually USB) that are more professional grade and are designed for music production.  They have inputs for things like professional microphones and electric guitars, and all their inputs and outputs tend to use professional connections (balanced 1/4" or XLR outputs instead of unbalanced 3.5mm or RCA, for example).  They will tend to have drivers optimized for low latency since that's important for music production.

There are also DACs, which are external devices geared towards high-end consumers or professionals that are intended for the highest-quality music playback but don't have any inputs for recording.