Waveform wrote:

It's a great digital piano just a tad on the light side action wise. The in built sounds are very high quality and the speakers can go pretty loud.

How is the MIDI velocity range when playing Pianoteq with this keyboard?

If you set piano's internal velocity curve to light, you can reach 127 if you hit it very very hard. It usually goes between 120 and 125 when you play fff.

It's a great digital piano just a tad on the light side action wise. The in built sounds are very high quality and the speakers can go pretty loud.

How is the MIDI velocity range when playing Pianoteq with this keyboard?

Waveform wrote:

Thanks a lot for the replies everyone and sorry for the delay in replying.
I went ahead and ordered the Kawai ES-120 and it should be here next week.

Can you give feedback on the ES120 and your satisfaction?

It's a great digital piano just a tad on the light side action wise. The in built sounds are very high quality and the speakers can go pretty loud.
The most annoying thing is that the default piano sound has reverb on it and I don't think you can have it load up a favourite / custom sound as the default sound with the Bluetooth app.
I tried a Korg digital piano in college recently with the RH-3 keybed and really liked the heavier action but the sounds weren't as high quality. I think it's an older LP model.
I guess my advice is try as many digital pianos out in a store as possible, before making a decision.
Over all I'm happy with the KS-120.

Thanks a lot for the replies everyone and sorry for the delay in replying.
I went ahead and ordered the Kawai ES-120 and it should be here next week.

Can you give feedback on the ES120 and your satisfaction?

After I ordered a deal popped up on the mydealz app for the FP-30X from a German Retailer I can't remember the name of and it was reduced to 550 euro. It sold out by time I saw the deal and went back up to 700 euro.

I think I'll be happy with the ES-120 though and can't wait to get it.

Now as a comparison, the FP30X is superior on paper, it's nice to play but sluggish and not the best piano for demanding classical stuff. The ES120 was more playable and enjoyable to me, it's got 2 sensors while the FP30X has 3..

I'd prefer the FP30X for some jazz and couple of licks, the ES120 if playing Chopin or Beethoven.

My advice, save some more money and get something like the FP90X or the Numa X GT, the P515 is also a beast, try before buying, but those three models are mostly a safe call.

I am looking for help in deciding between these 2 Keyboards for use with Pianoteq and standalone also.
Has anyone ever compared the action on both?

I see that the FP-30X has 3 sensors which on paper is meant to be better for midi output but then influencers like The Piano Forever, Jeremy See etc. say the action of the Kawai ES-120 is meant to be much better despite being a little lighter than the FP-30X.

I cannot try the Kawai ES-120 locally but I have tried the FP-30X and it felt nice but might be fatiguing.

The Kawai ES-120W is 2.3KG lighter than the Roland which is a bonus for transporting it.

So it's a case of superior action in the ES-120 vs the triple sensor in the FP-30X.

Both keyboards seem to be well matched making it hard for me to decide.

Looking forward to anyone's insight!

Thanks for your time,
Waveform

I had PF-30X and (very briefly) ES-110 (very similar action to ES-120). I did not like the action of ES-110 at all. It was very noisy (especially when the keys were coming up). I just could not use it because the noise of the action was distracting me.

PHA-4 of FP-30X is not bad but it may develop a clicking noise after 3-4 months.

One important advantage of PF-30X over (any) Kawai digital piano is that it has Digital Audio Interface that would allow you to use only one USB cable between your computer and FP-30X to send MIDI signal in one direction and Pianoteq digital audio signal back to the digital piano. This way you can use the amplification and speakers of the digital piano to play Pianoteq sound. This feature is very important to me. Remember to use Local Control in FP-30X.

I now have Yamaha P-515 (had Roland FP-90X before it).

Michael

Former FP-30X owner here. It's not a bad piano, but the stories of the action are true. I grew to really hate it, it feels like running in the shallow end of a swimming pool. For many things the action is quite nice and I had convinced myself I liked it at first, but if you want to play anything fast with trills, just forget it. The Piano Forever review hits the nail completely on the head and I wish I'd seen it before I purchased.

In the end I sold it and bought a Kawaii KDP120 and couldn't be happier. Kawaii's action is much better for me, it might be inferior from a midi standpoint but who cares about triple sensor if it feels horrible to play? I do love Roland's PHA-50 action seen in the FP90X et al. Pianos with it are markedly more expensive but they are the only Roland's I would even consider.

It's all rather subjective but that's my experience!

This is exactly the kind of post the OP wanted.
It's also an interesting confirmation that the mechanical aspects of the key mechanism is far more important than having a third sensor. More like that it's nice to have the additional sensor once you've got the basics right!
For marketing an additional sensor is far easier to promote though. Much like additional megapixels on a camera doesn't necessarily mean you've got a better camera.

If others also shared this comparison experience that would be good to know.

Trilling stuff!

In the end I sold it and bought a Kawaii KDP120 and couldn't be happier. Kawaii's action is much better for me, it might be inferior from a midi standpoint but who cares about triple sensor if it feels horrible to play? I do love Roland's PHA-50 action seen in the FP90X et al. Pianos with it are markedly more expensive but they are the only Roland's I would even consider.

It's all rather subjective but that's my experience!

That was very kind of you but totally not necessary! Someone else reading the thread may not have seen the video you embedded so don't be afraid to leave your input there.

I think either purchase will be a good purchase as they're neck and neck at the moment.
And thanks for linking me to the pianoworld forums, since a lot of people seem  to have issues a year after owning the studiologic SL88 that rules one more keyboard out!

That being said, on paper, the FP30X is what I'd go with also, but won't skew the vote as I don't have experience with both.

I didn't vote either. Same reason obviously.

EDIT:
Waveform:
https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads...rills.html

Here the complexities of double and triple sensors are discussed in a different piano forum.
Personally I suspect that 3 sensors come into their own when the keys return really quickly.  The likes of the Casio hybrid grand and MP11SE with much longer keys better approximate real grand piano actions.

Fast effortless trilling is not possible on the vast majority of real acoustic upright pianos due to the vertical alignment, hence relatively slow like most digital hammer action keyboards.

With spring action synth keys on my secondary keyboards I can play multiple notes on a single key really quickly but it's not really possible to control dynamics fully with those.

I just kept an eye on Craigslist and Facebook marketplace for a while and didn't buy anything I couldn't thoroughly test first. Reverb "local pickup only" listings are another place I see really good deals sometimes. Another perk about buying used is you can often resell without taking a loss, so you're not stuck with it.

That being said, on paper, the FP30X is what I'd go with also, but won't skew the vote as I don't have experience with both.

If I had to buy blind I would go for the Roland for the specs. The Kawai just looks a little more technologically dated to me. Hopefully someone with hands-on experience both of them can help you a little better.

36 minutes in:

https://youtu.be/o1er_wWA1Yk

This is a comparison video of only those two products, so you might want to watch the whole thing possibly?

I have watched it all and many other videos. I'm just looking to hear from first hand experience from people who have tried theirs as Midi Keyboards with Pianoteq or who might know more about how 2 sensors vs 3 sensors can affect playing.