I hope the "High Definition Detachable Piano Roll" available in the future update.

I'll make YouTube Video for this new V8.0.7 in the next topic.

Best Regards,

Dulistan Heman.

I just installed that latest 8.0.7 - thanks for letting us know it's there. I like the idea of detachable piano roll too.

Keep inspiring through your beautiful music, all my best.

Thank you Modartt Team for your hardwork in this new Update. For me, this is the Biggest Update so far that all Pianist should have, especially for those who have 3 sensors or less. For those who have cheaper keyboard with 2 sensors or less definitely should get Pianoteq 8.0.7 WITHOUT any Doubt. Recently I use my Motif XS6 that has lightweight synth key actions, and this recent Update make this old keyboard almost sounds like real piano. All I need is just click to hold the Sostenuto pedal to certain level, and any those cheaper keyboard become expensive. Another Great benefit is for Jazz and Blues Pianist who usually don't use Sustain Pedal for Solo melody. The short dry sound that was annoying is gone. For those who still thinking to buy Pianoteq, then this is the answer.

The Thrill finally Restored.

8.0.6 (2023/03/27)
Hammer bounce can be extended after the key release by using the sostenuto pedal.

One Last Request from me to Modartt Team is:

"Detachable Piano Roll" that we can move to the Middle, and also more High Definition (Piano Roll "only")

This is very helpful for any small laptop when we started to Magnify the GUI to 200% that put the "Piano Roll" Disappeared bellow the screen. When I tried to create YouTube Video by editing the 150% Piano Roll size, the quality of "Piano Roll" become worse and look blurry. If we can move the Piano roll to the Middle, or anywhere we like, then we don't have any issue with Disappeared Piano Roll in the first place. High Definition Piano Roll to bigger size is Highly appreciate.

Thank you Qexl, DV, Sandalholme, and Brundlefly for all your precious time to "Read", "Listen", and "Respond" all of my long writings in this forum.

Best regard,

Dulistan Heman

Unfortunately I use Mac machine. There's nothing I can do to instal different versions of 8. About sounds, Yes, we are in the same page. I do noticed the "Note attack envelope parameter fixed" in v8.0.3. I also noticed the thicker sound (Initial sound) compare to v8.0.1.

I never downloaded 8.0.1, but I still had 8.0.0 installed on one machine so I grabbed the executable and copied it into the installation directory where 8.0.5 resides on my Win11 machine. I then rendered a MIDI file using the default NY Steinway D Classical preset in each of them and imported those audio files into Cakewalk. When played together with one track phase-inverted, they null perfectly.

I was about to repeat the test with live MIDI played into Pianoteq via MIDI loopback from Cakewalk to see if there was a significant difference with real-time rendering other than could be expected from MIDI jitter, but then decided to check your MP3 examples first.

I was surprised to find that your files null almost perfectly with just a bit of noise down around -50dB that sounds like diffences in MP3 encoder output - nothing that would be audible in casual listening, and certainly nothing like a difference in amplitude envelope or tonal response would produce.

P.S. I had forgotten/overlooked that Qexl already reported the similarity of the samples and the MP3 encoding difference noise. That really should have been the end of it.

have you confirmed this might help? (although not sending 'local' audio info, a controller may send 'local' velocity info, with or without a button).

I can only suggest to try the other possibilities I mentioned above in the other post.

Don't give up!

Got it. No wonder I couldn't find the "Local OFF" button.

Unfortunately I use Mac machine. There's nothing I can do to instal different versions of 8. About sounds, Yes, we are in the same page. I do noticed the "Note attack envelope parameter fixed" in v8.0.3. I also noticed the thicker sound (Initial sound) compare to v8.0.1.

1. Based on your suggestions, I try to find the "Local OFF" button, but I couldn't find the setting.

Local [Control] Off is only applicable to piano/synth keyboards with built-in sound modules; the VPC1 is a pure MIDI controller.

This may be simply a matter of saving a copy of the 8.01 executable with a modified name before installing 8.05 and running it from the installation directory. Sometimes there are DLLs or other files that change with the version of an application but that does not appear to be the case with Pianoteq. I haven't had occasion to try it.

As for understanding the difference, if it's a matter of altered amplitude envelope (possibly due to "Note attack envelope parameter is fixed" in 8.03), I would guess this will be easiest to see by rendering individual, isolated notes with identical velocity and duration and comparing them in an audio editor.

I never use any of Linux OS in my life. The learning curve will definitely take time to adjust. I've been Windows user for decades and moved to Mac since 2011 because I have issue running my first Ableton with all the latency and ASIO. Back then only expensive laptop (minimum $2,000) can run Ableton while my first based 13 inch 2011 Mac ($800 used) can do that without no problem. I got my Pianoteq 6 running smoothly in that machine. Then in 2018, I got my 2nd Mac 2014 version (top of the line) used for $600, upgrade the SSD in 2020 to 4TB with another $200. Since it's still running just fine, I plan to keep using it until M3 or at least Apple released the 3nm.

For sandalholme,

That's good to know you still have High Sierra.

Anyway, I can install Pianoteq 6, 7, and 8 in One Mac with no problem. The only thing that I can not do is installing 2 (two) Pianoteq 8 version in One Machine. For example v8.0.1 and v8.0.5. Since I've been busy lately with some church projects, I skipped the v8.0.2, v8.0.3 and V8.0.4.

Based on my observations, each version of Pianoteq has its own character. That's the reason why I like to have 2 versions on Pianoteq 8 in my machine. Since am far from Computer geek, I will wait until Moddart allow us to do just that eventhough I can only running one version at a time.

Thank you very much.

One last question for Moddart:
Is there anyway we can install 2 Versions of Pianoteq 8 in One Machine?

I am no Modartt by any stretch of the imagination, but in my Linux machine I have installed every single version of Pianoteq I bought, plus also a large number of demo versions before I started being a customer (and the 8 too which I have not upgraded to yet since my controller is currently not working, but I will). All side-by-side, and they all work fine and don't interfere with each other at all. I've done this mostly because I'm a hoarder, I just need the last version, really, but "just in case" :-D

Linux is wonderful under this respect (and many others), it really allows you to do whatever you want, unless the developers really work hard to prevent that from happening (which Modartt didn't). I am not sure about Mac or Windows, but I strongly suspect you can on Mac too, and maybe (but just maybe) you can even on M$.

HTH

Last night and today, about 3 hours, I did clean uninstalled all my Pianoteq 8 softwares from all my 2014 MacBook Pro 15inch. After that, I installed the new Pianoteq v8.0.5, and suddenly it work normal in actions. The velocity normal and the sounds also normal. The fast latency that occurred, the key that feel heavy also disappeared. This is the first time happened to me since Pianoteq 6. One thing that I notice is that the new v8.0.5 has less resonance overtone compare to v8.0.1 that more define. Because of that, the v8.0.5 sounds more cleaner each time I hit the melody from p to ppp which is incredible. For Pop, this is definitely incredible. For Classical and church as myself, I prefer the v8.0.1.

I do have both v8.0.1 and v8.0.5 files, and now currently running the v8.0.5. I definitely love the v8.0.1 with it’s rumble overtone. Since I don’t like wasting my time about this, I will use the v8.0.5 to avoid any problem/bug and install the v8.0.1 for next time.

As you mentioned about bug, I do believe there’s bug between the two. Or, it might be my computer that already old (OS Catalina 10.15.7) that can not keep up with the new OS (M1 & M2 compatible). The reason I still use this old one because I can upgrade this machine SSD up to 4TB for cheap that would cost arm and leg if I buy M1 or M2. I hope Moddart keep included the OS Catalina in their future update considering many of us probably still use them. I also still have 2019 iPad 256GB waiting for the next Pianoteq iPad version. If this one excluded, then I am screwed for sure forcing to upgrade to the M2 because of future compatibility issue. Once Pianoteq iPad version launched, I will get one for sure, only if it can run on my 2019 iPad.

One last question for Moddart:

Is there anyway we can install 2 Versions of Pianoteq 8 in One Machine?

I used to have Pianoteq 6, 7 in one machine in the past which is awesome. However, we can not install 2 versions of Pianoteq 7 in one machine. I did clean uninstalled all of them after I upgrade the Pianoteq 8. If we can installed 2 versions of Pianoteq 8, I think that would be awesome.

Thank you Qexl for your details explanations. Best regards, Dulistan.

(the website seems to offer no way to find it in our user account area, perhaps for security reasons in case a bug exists etc.. that would probably be a good thing generally.)

They know you, and you've shared messages before I know - if they can help, I'm sure they would - and never stop making the world a better place with your lovely music!

Cheers.

v8.0.5 has unnatural sound decay

That's the strange thing about this - because here, it is fine on the MP11.. wish I could help from way across the planet

Things to still try though..

1
Check if your _Pianoteq_ velocity curve has not been mistakenly set to global (or the opposite if you do use a global one).

2
I can't tell if the VPC-1 has 'local OFF' setting, but would likely be a thing inside its "Editor" software if you installed it (def. seek it on your country's Kawai website - they will probably have a manual for it - but even if so, I'd definitely still try what Professor Leandro Duarte mentioned above, and load Pianoteq first and then next turn on your dpiano to see if that works for you as he said it worked for him. (if that works, it's probably good behaviour of the product I should add.. it would mean MIDI gurus could find good use for that).

3
Next, check what _Kawai_ velocity curve is set in the VPC-1 - it should be able to be set to "Touch Curve 3" (which is one especially for Pianoteq).. if it's set to that, the LED power button should show as green. Again, I believe it's something you set within the VPC-1 "Editor" software.

Hope those things help it along there.

Yes, your ears can be golden and plenty here have some long and illustrious careers, mine was full of heights and put me into circles of immensely talented people who I learned from humbly - I've had red carpets, a Grammy equiv award nomination for a project I co-wrote and performed on for a major label etc.. and there are others here with even more glorious stories and certainly plenty on the Pianoteq references page who are multi-Grammy winners etc.. and so on (but I honestly don't like considering this important - and no matter the user's talent, student/pro etc.. everyone may or may not be able to improve their piano - I'm just here to help because I have had a wild ride and have seen a lot happen in my time - and can empathize with others who love piano but not so much love for tech! - but indeed, esp. if mostly working in the analog realm, many of these things can remain bamboozling for a time - but I can say after 45yrs going from analog to 100% digital, the time spent adjusting your curves, learning how to breath different aspects into the piano presets and so on, are well worth getting past resistance - there's certainly time for music if you apportion some short time-frames for continuous discovery.. all worth it!

Should add a few ideas for you in case you cannot solve your core issue..

4
To allow your tails to breath longer, adjust "Direct Sound Duration" a little (I'm assuming the diff is small enough that some small alteration to that slider might not need to go so far as to create unrealistic fades). You may balance changes to it with further changes to hammer hardness or your Pianoteq velocity curve.

5
To "loosen up" the feel a little, try adjusting damper settings so they may not be so tight.. allowing some small amount less efficiency to the dampers.. I think this is an overlooked setting - and small reasonable adjustments here can make a tightly dampenned piano (which may be excellent for Mozart or staccato etc.) can become more fluid and 'romantic' or 'rock' oriented and so on. Try out the several settings inside that panel along with damper efficiency - you may find it a luxury you will not want to leave alone in some future times.

Cheers Dulistan - I really do hope installing (or updating) your VPC-1 software might help - I did not consider that until earlier today before I could post this! All the best - and I encourage you - and anyone - to not give up on these tweaks or working out some regrettably boring tech issues.. the payoff is infinite joy compared to small stretches of learning and fussing IMHO.

P.S. BTW:

Just found a manual for you in case this helps... it has instructions for drivers and the VPC-1 "Editor" software to allow you to set things as above (Wish I thought to find this earlier - with apologies)..

Kawai VPC-1 user manual from their

I partially agree with you and others about the v8.0.5. What I like about this version is only one which is the "Initial" Sound after we hit the key. I believe this version already improved since v8.0.3 based on the change log history.

In my opinion, the v8.0.5 key actions has faster response than the v8.0.1 which some pianist might prefer. The sound tail/decay seems more natural on v8.0.1 compare to v8.0.5. I really trust my ears on this one because this is the only skill that I know best in my line of work as Conductor which is already tested by public here. Without my skill, I definitely jobless in USA. As you know, there are so many skill conductor with degree and also computer savvy which I don't have (I have no degree and no computer skill). People use me because of my skills (hearing, feeling/emotions and musicality). Fortunately, Pianoteq v8.0.1 has that natural decay that can glued with the next sound. When the Pianist finished hit all the keys, all the sounds including overtone tails decaying beautifully until it disappears.

In other words, the v8.0.5 has unnatural sound decay.

For velocity curve, based on my past experienced, I really don't want to go to that direction anymore.

Temporary solutions will always helpful while am waiting for the next update. Here a few questions for you that will help me a lot and others in the long run:

1. Based on your suggestions, I try to find the "Local OFF" button, but I couldn't find the setting.

2. How to install 2 (two) versions of Pianoteq 8 in one computer, that way I can have v8.0.1 and v8.0.5 in one machine.

Sorry if I have too much questions considering myself far from Computer Savvy. I think I only use 5% of all the fancy Pianoteq 8 Studio bundle. Since Moddart gave me great discount since version 6, why not get it before it's gone.

Thank you very much Qexl. Best regard, Dulistan.

Always is kind of interesting that while some may feel that when playing, some new versions improve, and it surely will also make some others feel it is not how they prefer. Here are some thoughts hoping to help you thresh out what you experience there. Thanks for such interesting observations there re velocities and esp. your sense about ver. 8.0.3. having a different ceiling.

I can't confirm I've noticed those myself - and I think your use of piano (playing regularly in similar situation for others) you are more likely than I am to discover a feeling that something is particularly different.. my use cases are often about squeezing something particular from a particular piano/preset in a particular piece (and my own many-piano experiments and variable practice sessions where I tend to use 'wrong' piano choices for certain pieces, to stretch myself somehow. Nobody's way is better/worse and all that blah blah stuff - but it always amazes me how well Pianoteq suits so many musicians with so many ways for working.) My general sense is that 8.0.5 is giving me the best results yet - and the reason I care to post is not to say "it should work for you" but maybe to express ways to find "why it may not be working as well for you" and hopefully uncover, IDK some strategic way of thinking about the dpiano/velocity curves, playing even (not that you're in need of anyone telling you 'how to play' - just inre electronics, it CAN be beneficial to work within the wiggle room between reality and what comes out of speakers with some extra layer of "I need to do some things a little different" at times, in my exp.

Not sure exactly how else to help for now (so will think/write some unedited thoughts out below - I know these get long but I truly try to lasso things into a way that reading through might trigger that ol' "AHA" moment) - but from my exp. with 8.0.5 it just seems possible that if you have exp. shorter tails or a feeling of a tighter piano generally that perhaps altering (loosening) the damper settings a little might help with your perception there?

Unfortunately it seems impossible other than for you to describe how you receive ver. 8.0.5 - the null test indeed can only show that output 'same MIDI' file is near identical - but, I still think that only a video showing your 'touch' response of both versions, as you perform on the diff vers. would allow others to inform an opinion *such as "Ah, I can see that if he moved velocity curve a tiny bit here and here it could help" etc. In a way, that will remain up to you I guess.. and for sure, you know you can contact support (in case some others are wondering - as this is a user-to-user forum).

Should mention before I forget entirely, the 'Local OFF' button on my dpiano quite often gets bumped (I rarely want to toggle it - but it's the most common "Whoops!" here, prob because a qwerty keyboard sits on the dpiano near that button right where my thumb might want to be when I pick up the little qwerty slab) - just because I didn't consciously toggle that sucker doesn't mean th'it't'izn't toggled - it happens to most over a long enough time-frame I'd guess Often when someone suggests "Check if X or Y is ON/OFF" types of things, it can be from experience, that we've noticed we bumped some button more than a few times in our time, or that it is a common thing anyone might overlook -

But please definitely don't for some reason overlook checking your 'Local OFF' setting. Esp. if local off is engaged (I hate these double-negative on/off toggles!), then maybe starting Pianoteq first, then turning on your dpiano might work (as the good Professor Leandro Duarte mentioned).. no reason not try that? - it's been many posts/days but no confirmation you checked that one. Beyond that, if that didn't work for you..

Keep on it though - I feel it's possibly a confluence of your curve or something else which can be altered (remembering you have worked through to find your improvements necessary in the past).

Apart from feeling here that 8.0.5 is better here, which could be placebo, I can't say exactly why or how other than it feels more like a real piano keyboard and my audio gives me a sense of immediacy and depth - and not sure if any recent updates would touch on those things, so I guess I just internalized it as 'placebo effect' - but indeed definitely not worse - so still kind of a mystery why that's different in your case - but indeed, I experience 8.0.5 as better so there's hope you can too - and I feel, overall, if we allow ourselves to believe 'something' is mildly different in feel.. if it's good here (presuming for others too? welcoming any observations always) that a small tweak which you made previously, might be able to be tweaked 'back' or 'up/down' a notch here or there to take into account any new sense of change?

Give thought esp. to bounds of your curve, or middle of curve .. how much curve vs. how much flatness or min/max ranges etc.. it can turn out that you find a real "Aha moment" (posting that because I still seem to do that at least 2 times per year "Argh why haven't I tried this before?").

Inre shapes/extents.. truth being, infinite choice requires bounds and we can't all try every combo forever although some of us try - not always finding a perfect 'default for all' curve, but definitely I have curves for pianos/presets which really make those feel wonderfully personal and fitting, compared my previous curves.. also make a little time for a 'sanity check' occasionally, using default curve - that can absolutely help because it really does seem better with each major vers. upgrade - and our own curves whilst great for versions in the past can become extinct unless pruned and watered (None of that is specific only to Pianoteq - any VST ever with settings/velocity etc. can benefit from keeping some kind of everyday 'musician workflows' in mind to 'try' at least every few months or more IMHO - no harm pointing this out - but also 'defaults' are wonderful and improved so much with each major upgrade that, for many, NONE of this matters I guess).

Also could be worth mentioning that, ver. 8, to me, seems to really have improved notes/chords subtle less-than 'f' overall and I do encourage any pianists to workshop the idea of playing overall with lower velocities now in Pianoteq. Many are doing what they do and are way above where I am in pianistic skill and what I say about this does not matter - but unless we're in Horowitz territory, there's never a reason to not make 'greater use of lower velocity' in electronic instruments a solid part of your workflow esp. when the tool has immensely improved in that regard.

Historically, I've found since early 80s when some hardware makers meant well and put out their slabs and MIDI was becoming more relied upon in recording situations, that there was almost universal 'non classical' tendency for a lot of musicians to play well up above 60 MIDI velocity.. seemingly in pop it was ~80 plus (that focus helped along by DAWs having default '80' or default '60' for painting in MIDI notes, which would impress on new musicians that it is normal to largely ignore velocities below those) .. crazy too that even I used to choose 127 velocity for some piano lines/sounds back then for certain recordings, because it absolutely didn't matter in the context of a given mix as other tools didn't exist to do better (and recording real pianos were not the goal or a time-sink or would incur more expense) BUT also notes below kind of just turned to mud the lower the velocity was set on those early digital tools quite frankly. Not saying anyone plays wrong! - but certainly, one key difference in how Pianoteq sounds, to me, is how I choose to play with fewer f or ff note ranges now. It has taken years for me to lose many ingrained habits from early digital days and even skilled pianists coming from the world of real pianos only might have, even within the recent past, been 'leaning' heavier on velocity in digital pianos because the lower velocity of many piano software products are not as 'nice' as the slightly higher (easier to 'mix') tones of higher velocities.

Turning up a little, playing softer can be one of the nicest changes to discover or focus on, esp. now Pianoteq gives such a well manageable low velocity output. At ver. 7 most things I used to do with real pianos (esp. when pushing signal hard in studio) truly came of age, to me. Now at ver. 8 it's amazingly, to me, like a real piano recorded onto a track (probably stated that before in several places) and I feel it's possible to do anything with it artistically in post without it ending up sounding like software piano.. but there will always be users who will feel an update altered something they set up earlier, myself included in the past - anyway back to trying to discover what might be specific to you..

2 ways to get there, organically 're-tuning' our playing to adjust to play fractionally softer (to elicit the nice body of tonality in those slightly lower ranges - even dropping 'velocity' for all MIDI notes a few percent could quickly indicate possible benefits, worth trying if interested).. and the other way, if it's hard (or unnecessary in ones own personally valid opinion) to back off a touch physically with velocity, editing the Pianoteq velocity curve can limit, or expand in ways which may benefit your style of playing. In the music examples supplied, within the MIDI, there's certainly dynamic range and it would fill a hall etc. but IDK, cannot help thinking a mix of 'velocity curve' and 'damper action' could be the 2 things to tweak to head in the direction I sense you are going with your playing, sweetness and dynamicism etc. - hope that typed out stuff makes sense when you and/or others read through.

If there are some small things not so fortuitous for your customized elements (curve particularly of course) I'd recommend always to give it time - always, with things like velocity curve, this never stops improving in my exp.. I never stop improving it or making variants of 'best' ones and each year or so I surprise myself by breathing a small extra sense of quality from my dpiano by some tiny tweak here or there. Most rewarding with patient consideration over more than just days/weeks/months and years.

I genuinely believe that any electronic musician will benefit by making basic tweaks a part of their music kit routine. The nature of all of our incredibly disparate equipment sets (from dpianos to speakers and DACs) mean that there truly is no 'default' for all.. everyone will experience the best or limited sets of experiences available via the product, esp. based on whether they spend X time on the whole rig down to details - and re-asses constantly for cresting the very best possible results.. that's just my advice to anyone using any electronics based musical equipment. I guess the equivalent for someone using a physical piano is 'getting it setup/regulated/tuned'.. a good technician may impart much.

It could certainly be that the velocity curves I have work 'for me' really well with any of the possible small changes in the latest version which you feel as lesser.